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Buu
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Posted: Monday January 16th, 2006 05:32 |
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I haven't read the book yet, but from the reviews and from others I've heard about the book, I feel it could make our situation worse political. I feel we our leaders should be concentrating on issues that benefit us in the means that it benefit us for generations to come so we could maybe break off smoothly as nationalist with what we've leant. One could only feel overly optimistic to believe American is going to remain in one piece.
The book basically talks about Jews and the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade and there major involvement.
Check out a review on the book at Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0963687700/qid=1137381627/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-9901335-9682426?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
I'm not saying that anything from this book couldn't be true or we should just ignore it, but we live in an unstable world with power quickly changing hands. Much of the political clout we Africans have stems from our suffering from the slave trade and the civil rights movement. The Civil rights movement being what "Liberal" Jews used to there advantage which we've benefited from in tiny ways to the resentment of certain people.
Power Slowing Changing Hands.
I hope a few have and can looked at it this way...
What I understand is that Jews have used us as a political power base to slightly balance out power the euro Americans had before and during the civil rights movement and thus given themselves extra security within a society which would or could otherwise oppress anyone that wasn't white which of course means Jews also. With the situation in Israel and Iraq people are beginning to ask more questions about Jewish influence within American, now if this situation was to worsen for example an invasion of Iran (which could be far fetch) or oil crisis in the Middle East (Which is more likely), this could only benefit a particular element of American society to openly ask about Jewish influence in American with less condemnation of "Anti Semitism". This could benefit white nazi if they play their cards right and Islam in there "war against Zionism". The Islamic "war against Zionism", gets me asking "What is the NOI's motives?". This could lead to more questions of what other influences have and have had in the past, and we have the blame game once again with a weakening Jewish influence within American society and even Europeans society.
My Major Problem Is
I've already seen white people beginning to blindly use this book to wash their hands of the atrocity of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade and blame the Jews solely for it. This is how it would be written if white supremacist was to have there way and to strengthen themselves political if it was to pan out into a racial war as well as a economic/class or/and religious war/divide.
Maybe I haven't analyzed the situation thoroughly or probably can't be analyzed, but I do feel we "our" leaders shouldn't just antagonize because they're our enemies but to build ourselves up for an inevitable change. Yes we may learn some truths which will do nothing for most of us, but will do more for those we seek to challenge in the first place.
So question, what path is this book suppose to put us on with our views towards Jews and Slavery, and if you've read the book what are your views on this?
What is your take on a situation which could repeat itself?
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Shemsi en Tehuti
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Posted: Monday January 16th, 2006 14:31 |
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I have had this book for years, and have also read it. It is very important information to know. Furthermore, it shows how intricate the finances in Europe and the Americas were in the trans-Atlantic slave trade. European Jews were not the only ones to get filthy rich from this, there European counterparts are equally guilty...the Jews were not working alone, but in conjunction with other Whites.
The last thing I would like to say is although I applaud this effort by the NOI, I find it rather suspect that they gloss over the Muslim hand in the slave trade. We should ask, why expend so much energy to point out Jewish connections, instead of highlighting White connections all together? They must have passed over so much useful information just to find something with a Jew in it. Oh well, I guess all religious groups have their bias...
--Thoth B3
Last edited on Monday January 16th, 2006 14:32 by Shemsi en Tehuti
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MyThoughts
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Posted: Monday January 16th, 2006 15:29 |
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If you have read that or about to, read also THE JEWISH ONSLAUGHT by TONY MARTIN, who made this recommended reading on his African-American history course.
See the response he got, LOL and they say we are sensitive.
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Posted: Monday January 16th, 2006 15:33 |
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| And one more thing, supposedly the book uses predominantly JEWISH sources. That is the the title of this thread book.
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Posted: Monday January 16th, 2006 17:38 |
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Very powerful book!
I read it when I really started getting my hands dirty in as far as activism goes. it opened my eyes to a lot of foul practices that were going on in the movement. Got to the point when I reread Many elements of Black History I got to see that hand at work in terms of the NAACP, The USA March on Washington and more.
A powerful read!
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Monday January 16th, 2006 18:23 |
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" ... Our second appointment is with Operation Black Vote, a non-partisan campaign to reduce the "entrenched cynicism about politics within the black community". Its co-ordinator, Simon Woolley, is a handsome, light-skinned black man ('They're often the most extreme,' notes Parker). He tells us that he enjoys good relations with all the political parties, even the Tories ...
... Woolley counters by pointing out that another black radical, Professor Tony Martin, was "disinvited" once the group discovered that he was the author of a book called The Jewish Onslaught.
"That was a tough decision," he says ..."
Source: "It's time to kick some British butt", Sunday Times (South Africa), 7 December 2003
Simon Woolley of The Black
Jewish Forum
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LadyDay
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Posted: Monday January 16th, 2006 18:23 |
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*Refresh*
-moved to book review forum-
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Posted: Monday January 16th, 2006 22:24 |
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What the hell happened to my post.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Monday January 16th, 2006 22:26 |
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| Buu..you cannot cut N paste from some version of word onto BNV..it doesn't work sorry..although I'm now using word 2003 and this works everytime..
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Posted: Monday January 16th, 2006 23:47 |
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@Buu. Second attempt to send this. But first greetings.....
Several points.. The book is a good piece of scholarship and a very good read and helped me to tie up stuff I first uncovered years ago when doing my thesis. For example the role of Jews in slavery can be traced through the massive footnotes of Trinidadian scholar Eric Williams and his two classics and Capitalism and Slavery in particular ,around the world sugar trade and the Caribbean dimension in particular.
Equally, the University of West Indies archeologists and historians have dug up a couple of synagogues in Jamaica and there are others in Barbados, Cuba and many other islands. So the book is an excellent resource for filling in important gaps in our knowledge about our experiences and the roles of Jews and no different than the roles of Christians etc.
Many book reviews you read on Amozon are posted by campaigns of Jewish organisations attempting to descredit the book. I have read a whole heap of them, including some purported to be from black people which I doubt very much because they all have one thing in common is that not one of them have actually read the book. So it is a skank to put people from actually purchasing and reading it.
All the reviews I have read from historians, particularly noted Jewish historians have given the work the thumbs up and no way they could not as the book is a collection of papers and articles written as My Thoughts said by eminent Jewish scholars of the time. This of course and the tactics behind it has sent Jews or the majority involved into a frenzy as they basically have been out manouvered.
You are totally correct, in order to understand much of contemporary Jewish politics in the US you have to appreciate the collapse of the civil rights movement which actually benefited Jews more than black people and equally important they were very very influential on the tactics and strategies of the civil rights movement and why MLK must have serious question marks around him in this area.
If you can recall Malcolm's X explanation of how the Jews hijacked the famous March on Washington with their money and influence and turned it into a multi-racial festival rather than what it was billed to be a representation of black rage given how the Kennedy's were dragging their feet with promised legislation among other things.
The black power movement destroyed the intergrationist, multi-racialism of the King era which to Jews was the high point for them and worse still correctly defined them as WHITE and no different and in many cases much worse than Gentiles..On top of that SNCC and then everybody else condemned Israel calling it racist for the treatment of the Palestinians and from that day to this day Jews have very few black friends on the issue of Israel...
It is no mistake or coincidence that the Jews are the most hostile to black power, Afrocentricism and mainstream black thinking and are at the forefront of the war against black studies and the implementation of affirmative action policies. In fact against all that surpassed the civil rights era.
For example they carried out a 50 year campagin against Professor J H Clarke using almost anything and everything you can imagine eg attempting to get him sacked from his univseristy etc. They even tried to diss him after his death by calling him a noted Anti-Semite. They went after Professor Leonard Jefferies who beat them in a landmark legal victory, and plenty others. Tony Martin simply being the latest in a long line.
It's basic terrorsim eg say what we don't like and we will do you by any means necessary or so they think. The issue of slavery and the role of Jews is one of the most threatening to both their stature, tactics and moral authority. Given that one of the key resources of Jews is to say how nobody has suffered like them and they are the world innocents who everybody picks on for know reason etc. Of course anybody who seriously studies history knows this is not the case.
Moreover ,this damages their moral authority because a) Jews did not suffer on American soil but Europe and their pain is not that of America even if they have made it so. Then black people come along and show that far from being inniocent these people treated black people and others no different than any other whites and even worse.
For example while 6 million are alleged to have been killed in Germany, I say alleged because we only have Jewish scholars word on it. World scholars stay clear from this issue for not wanting to be called anti-Semetic which is their favourity weapon. So unlike other areas of scholarship where disagreement is what it is about, they have managed to place an electric fence around the issue. The European Union changed its definition of anti-Semitism to include historical revisionism which they define in effect anybody who challenges the official interpretation and you must understand European scholars who are non Jews sat there silently as they did it. When this is in effect a dictat telling people you must agree and has nothing to do with the neo facist who say the holocaust story was made up or exaggerated...Fools..Look like gas chambers to me friend.
However, even if we accept their figures the numbers of Africans who died from the transportation from Africa to the Americas is estimated around a couple of hundred million. Harvard Professor Spellman estimated it at 50 million in the sixties and present day academics laugh at that figure.
Moreover, as Secret Relations makes clear by a particular scholar who examines the official Census records ever since Americans held them which as you may know slaves were counted as part of the personal estate or property in this calculations. He shows how Jews held more slaves per ratio than any other sections of the white population.
So of course they are pissed. because the only people who could burst their moral bubble and the political resources which come from it to black- mail people to obtain influence. Look at this the Daily Mail is worse than the Jewish Chronicle. I counted 4 major pieces last month alone and that is consistent year in year out. They find a cousin of a cousin of a cousin of a guard who was at a German camp for a day and that is a major double page feature.
Study the Dail Mail hard and you will see what I am saying a Jewish propaganda sheet, so we are always bombarded by their message on every aspect of their experience with the exception of the numerous Jewish collobarators, mistresses for Nazi officers and we can go on or the Jewish upper middle class and establishment who did not give a raas as they thought Hitler was after the poor Jews. So highly selective in their message.
Has Farrakhan an agenda of course he has, but so do all publishers and writers so lets not put that on him. Because black people are very late in that game. When books were pouring out on the market cussing every part of black men, regardless of the quality or truth that was because they had agendas and why brothers with alternative opinions were getting blanked and hard.
When Daniel Bell wrote the Bell Curve claiming black people were intellectually inferior, long time after academia had long deemed the type of research methodology used in these cases as worthless. Don't you think publishers and academic publishers in particular use academic referees and usually the top in their feild to read these manuscripts. But they still published it, created a storm, make money before the academic establishment and others ripped the sh*t out of it and it dissapeared.
Didn't they know that was going to happen? Of course they did, but it was published to attack the liberal agenda and affirmative action in efforts to give psuedo scientific support to those who are anti our views. So the whole publishing and academic world is political, always has been always will be. Nothing to do with Farrakhan. He just played the game against them and that is what really has sent them into a frenzy....spitting blood and fire.
Plus by publishing the book under the name of the Historical Research Department of the NOI, despite it clearly been put together by qualified academics from their organisation or commissioned and I think it is the latter. In fact the book says it was commissioned. The Jews have not be able to play their usual games of going after people with the machinary, going through their finances or anything they can get their teeth into.
Hence given they cannot descredit the contents on its academic merits, they have simply tried to ensure that it does not become popular. But I think they have been stuffed on this one. So what we can write books on Christians and their role in slavery but not Jews? Says who?
But I think for once in his life Farrakhan has actually done something that requires intelligence of a particular level. This books not only meets an academic gap in our knowledge, puts Jews on the defensive but gone after them by the throat, but forced the academic world to defende it on principle. Regardless what they think of the NOI or not.
Only part of that agenda relates to the interest of black people, and there is a clear objective basis for it, given the current treatment of black people by Jews. Examine the history of New York and ex Mayor Koch who ruled by two principles keep blacks in their place, giving a murderous police force carte blanche to kill black people and some of the worse murders of our people took place on his watch. And his undying support of all things Jewish and Israel.
Remember when Mayor Gulliani took over from Koch, he brought in the three strikes rule which was aimed at blacks to show Jews, Italians and the rest of them he was tough on blacks as his predecssor. Remember the case of that skinny Jew whose name slips me (Bernard Getz 1986) who went to the New York subway armed with semi-automatic guns filled with dum dum bullets hanging around a neighbourhood where no black person, except if you are a crack head or a criminal working would go and then shot the kids at point blank when they asked him for money. Forget his name but it will come back. Remember the incident of the Hassidic Jew who ran over those black kids and kept on driving hitting more of them. There are many more incidents.
The other dimension of this action is due to his Islam and his alliances abroad with his Islamic brothers to show then he is a hard man on Jews and will not run from them. For me this is where we need to be very very careful, because often black people may think Farrakhan is fighting our people' wars but he is actually playing to international Islam.
At Saviours Day in 1987 which I watched Farrakhan went after the Jews in a manner to me which is morally disgusting and shows what he is frankly. He was whipping up the crowd into a frenzy about Jews and particularly New York and he said if they don't back off then there will be (and put his hand to his ears) and people were screaming..WAR....But check it Farrakhan himself said nothing...That is a man with little principle and an opportunist and a charlatan and DANGEROUS...If you are a leader worth tuppance and that is what you belief then you should lead the call and the charge. Not work your people up and then lose your voice.
The NOI are a jokers and I and many people have always said so. They have a massive security wing marching up and down dressed like clowns for show. If he meant any of that they would not be marching up and down in that manner making it obvious for the world who they are, because the NOI will never ever get into that rough and tough stuff, only playing and playing dangerous games with ignorant people.
He then went on even lower into the gutter and then started talking about Hitler and claimed and I heard it in a room of people that Hitler was a "wickedly great man". Words he no doubt chose very carefully and then when the inevitable sh*t broke out he said he said nothing of the sort. So much for his Islam or integrity, because everybody heard it.
So he likes to play games and dangerous games knowing that nobody can harm him personally and he will deny point blank anyway.
So as I said I think the NOI for once have shown some real intelligence and serious cunning in how they have dropped this book like a bomb.
Moreover there is a book by R Segal called Islam's Black Slaves. I would bet my life that book was funded if not commissioned on the lo by Jews. It is published by a French Jewish company and is a very good book like Secret Relations and a product of good scholarship.
I saw massive pieces in the Times, The Guardian, The Wall Street Journal and all the world majors which I came across on the book. Academics do not get that type of coverage. This is not medical science and somebody just discovered the cure for cancer. Nope, somebody was pushing that book hard, very very hard, calling in favours etc.
But Farrakhan has won that battle because only serious academics or a small number of people would run to buy Segal's book, but Farrakhan book is on the popular level and born in controversy which he loves and of course people will ask what the fuss is about and go look for themselves. Who cares if Arabs were big time slavers of black people...Osamah Bin Ladin? Any of the Saudi Arabians or other Arabs who are slaving to this day...Nope..Do black people not know about Arabs? Yes they do because our scholars and others have exposed their roles long time.
So Segal's book would never have that impact.
1-0 to NOI me thinks...
FB
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LadyDay
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Posted: Tuesday January 17th, 2006 05:42 |
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im slowly reading this book as i like to read the footnotes too
quite interesting so far
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Posted: Wednesday January 18th, 2006 23:55 |
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Thanks to all that replied, especially to Fredblack, who answered all my questions and more, a lot of reading between the lines also. I was beginning to believe that the point of this thread wasn't clear, which is why it probably got sent to the Book Review forum. Appreciate it if it was moved back if it isn't too much trouble.
I remember attempting to search for this book through Amazon and was having a hard time trying to find it because as you said the subject is flooded with books attempted to discredit it.
The motive that worries me most is the Islamic one and as you said we have to be very careful.
There are a lot of questions about the Jews role in the Civil Rights Movement which isn't talked much or at all in the public (for obvious reason) or this forum. I know once we've talked about this on the forum once before but I can't seem to find the thread.
MGL, are those your words? Because that p***es me off!
Operation Black Vote, a non-partisan campaign to reduce the "entrenched cynicism about politics within the black community".
Simon Woolley of The Black
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They look for every angle to demoralize us.
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LadyDay
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Posted: Thursday January 19th, 2006 11:43 |
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-this thread was moved to the book review forum as it is about the book in question. discussing the issues raised within the book still makes it a book review thread.
if you are concerned that no one will see this thread please dont be as most people go in just about every section of the forum
HTH
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FredB
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Posted: Friday January 20th, 2006 19:20 |
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@Buu. No prob bro.. You already read the play.
FB
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Saturday March 4th, 2006 08:56 |
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Maybe other people need to read it too ...
Lynched by 11 Asians,
22 October 2005, aged 24 ...
only 3 people charged with
his murder to date!
Organisation that actively campaigns for cultural,
economic, political and social justice on behalf of
the African community
To: Ligali
Date: 2 November 2005
Subject: taking responsibility
Dear Toyin
Ligali and some other Black media outlets must take some responsibility in fueling a climate of race hatred.
Instead of showing leadership to African people by targeting its attention to potential criminals Ligali -by calling for an Asian boycott - sort (sic) to demonise a whole continent of people over an incident which may or not have happened.
Its present rethoric is in danger of doing the same again over the murder of Ishiah Young-Sam.
For a long time Ligali has been a positive force in the British Black community. It must live up to that high standard and not behave like right wing groups that take the actions of a few to stereotype a generation.
Simon Woolley
Director OBV
"Operation Black Vote is a non-party political campaign, supported by a broad coalition of mainly Black organisations ... The term 'Black' is a political term. It refers to African, Asian, Caribbean and other ethnic minorities."
"When I first came to London from Leicester 20 years ago, I got a job with a company based in Redbridge and the boss happened to be Jewish. In Leicester, the only time that you met a Jew was in a joke. As schoolchildren we'd say, 'Don't be a Jew, give me a sweet'. But you never associated such comments with a people.
Working with Jewish people I did understand very quickly that there was a vernacular and a discourse that I needed to adopt to belong. The street vernacular: It's a schlepp over there; don't be a schnorer. I used go to the Schvitz with my Jewish friends and the team of schmeissers, we used to take turns and give each other a rub down with the lulluf, and you used call someone a schmooser and a lulluf on the phone.
I got very close to this group and I used to go to Bar Mitzvahs and family celebrations. I remember one particular Bar Mitzvah when there was a knock on the door and the Mohel walks in to this house full of Jewish people there and the first thing he does is call out 'Simon, what are you doing here?' And where I knew him from was down the Schvitz.
But there is the prevailing legacy of racism. I was invited round to the boss' house for dinner on a Friday night with all his family. And they asked me how I was getting on with my flat, and I said. 'It's all right but he's a right Jew'. And everybody just stopped eating their food, and I realised what I'd said. What I'd meant to say was 'He's mean'. I realised what I'd said. I apologized. I explained that I was from Leicester and they said they understood, they knew me to be a good man, but from that moment on I realised that people can say it's only a joke but it isn't. We're still friends to this day."
Simon "Schvitz" Woolley of
The Black Jewish Forum
Has he read it yet?
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Posted: Wednesday April 19th, 2006 19:54 |
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| bump for later...
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