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COLTRANE
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Posted: Tuesday July 12th, 2005 11:06 |
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I finished reading this NON -FICTION book by prof jeffery Sachs who was at columbia institute before he went on to the UN
I have been discussing the book in PM with Burning Spear as we both finished reading it last week and I thought it would be better if we should share our views together in the Blacknet Village as well as give a change to thouse who havent read it to read it
Its a very good book and I strongly recomend it to everyone as it mainly deal with solutions
I am not sure if I should write my reviews at this moment or wait until enough people have read it
whats your advice ?
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Burning Spear
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Posted: Tuesday July 12th, 2005 13:02 |
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The book was interesting but totally simplistic and outright delusional in places in regards to ending poverty.
While governments do have a role in addressing world poverty, the real question is, "How should governments best address the poverty issue?" Since more funds are annually given to address poverty through charitable contributions than via tax dollars, and are managed with greater efficiency through those humanitarian organizations, the answer to how governments should contribute to the fight against poverty is not an easy one. Should governments get bigger and more bureaucratic? Should they empower the organizations already making a difference? Should they join together making one, huge world-wide organization to address the issue?
Unfortunately, Sachs ops for the latter with a `top down' solution. He proposes the development of a goliath governmental project by suggesting the U.N. secretary general personally run the overall plan, coordinating the actions of thousands of officials in six U.N. agencies, U.N. country teams, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Yikes! That's a recipe for bureaucracy on steroids.
With that said, governments do have a role - and that's to empower citizens to stay involved in the solution. How? By providing further tax incentives to those who contribute to ending poverty. Part of that answer means decreasing the tax burden in order to allow people to give more.
It's reasonable to suggest Sachs' appeal would best be served if directed towards the hearts and minds of motivated individuals - asking them to continue giving generously and responsibly to humanitarian organizations. Additionally, I'd wished Sachs would have challenged those organizations to collaborate, team-up, and utilize synergistic benefits.
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Tuesday July 12th, 2005 22:02 |
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I know a thing or two about international development and jaffery Sachs came int my vocabulary when of all economists the bolivian govt had a high fever of hyper -inflation back in 80's partly because i think Bolivian govt believed in his "neoliberal" economic interventions who did nothing but rushed to the bedside recognised the signs and of course adviced on hike in oil prices and guess what he said? Infaltion was cured in one day!
And of course him being a well connected havard professor he luck didnt die there as Poland succumbed to a bad dose of black markets, fiscal deficits and debt, his friend George Soros put him in contact with Solidarity(that movgement of dorrkyad workers led by lech welessa-not sure if I pelled the name correctly) and he administered a course of liberalisation, privatisation and then stabilisation ohh he didnt end there Yelsin of Russia him, but his proposed reforms went terribly wrong as criminalisation and corruption took over his privatisation programme. Contentiously, he denies all responsibility but I know is thefruits are the Abramovich,Bereznovky and other oligarchs that decided to move here in London
After couple of years JAFFERY seemed to be like a IDEALIST student in his second year at university who seems to be suffering a dose of advanced consultivitis - symptoms include a swollen ego and a fervent belief that you can change the world. In a work littered with tales of meetings with presidents and global dignitaries, he plays the moral economist who goes from country to country handing out pills and mopping the fevered brows of administrations in economic crisis & the PRODUCT? his semi thesis book THE END OF POVERTY
First I believe that Prof. Sachs presents a clear and forceful message but it is questionable whether his recommendations will really help in achieving a lastingly better world. There are two central problems with Prof. Sachs' prescriptions:
the first problem is that he fails adequately to question the questionable orthodox prescription for economic development, centred on liberalisation and privatisation, although he favours supplementing it through more and better direct government investments in public health, education and infrastructure.
I dont want to sound anti-American here but In this respect, the doctrine that Prof. Sachs supports can be referred to as "Washington Consensus Plus": it includes all the elements of policy that have been promoted for the last two decades by the U.S. treasury, the IMF and the World Bank, but adds some other elements besides and Prof. Sachs' view departs sharply from that of prominent critics of elements of the Washington Consensus, like prof stgliz and bagwati (who has emphasised the potential dangers of free capital mobility).Sachs' prescriptions may ultimately create some problems as well as solve others.
thhe second problem is that he relies heavily on the idea that today's development problems have a technical fix. In reality, it is impossible to know in advance exactly how to achieve any end — as is evinced by the dismal record of past attempts at comprehensive central planning.
I think we do know that some interventions (such as, in his view, the use of insecticide-dipped mosquito nets to combat malaria) are likely to be very effective at enhancing human well-being.But then again the solutions to a great many other problems are simply unknown, and it would be best to recognise this.On the other hand Technical fixes do not exist for the most important problems we face. For these, institutional and political reforms— largely ignored in the Book' recommendations — are as important.
sh*t I am talking too much here but I will stop for now but its the best book I've read in thre years
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Tuesday July 19th, 2005 19:57 |
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I e-mailed Jeffery Sachs when he was at Princeton about economists ignoring depreciation of durable consumer goods. I got no response like I do with most economists.
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Wednesday July 20th, 2005 21:38 |
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@Umber
If you read that book you might not believe that it was written by economist but then I think he has been lucky though he wasnt lucky with russia
I think he might be still approachable if he were at columbia institute then again Kofi anan took him to UN the man has become sooo big
btw
have u read the book?
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Thursday July 21st, 2005 00:49 |
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I haven't read it. I have seen Sachs interviewed on a lot of TV programs. There was a series on PBS called COMMANDING HEIGHTS, he appeared in that a number of times.
umbRA
LOL
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ozellh20
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Posted: Thursday July 21st, 2005 16:29 |
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| I read the book and it was a good book; as for Sachs' ideas of ending poverty it clearly stated that poverty itself could not be totally eradicated but extreme poverty can; and there are some contradictions in some ares of the book when he does make references to eradicating poverty; its methods to be were reasonable and could be applied; as I am not an ecomonist but managed to understand the book fairly well; and I don't perceive his a saint only someone who perhaps, will like to see a end to sensless suffering, then again, I could be wrong as I don't know the man personally.
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Thursday July 21st, 2005 20:52 |
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@OZELIH
all in all I think jeffery was trying to tell us that a national development strategy must be open to revision. A country, like a person, does best by revising its plans in light of new information after all national and international plans for poverty reduction must incorporate flexibility, so that they can reflect the different conditions prevailing in different countries
But then again allowing for flexibility is not enough because a practical approach to reducing human deprivations must actively foster learning about the best strategies, rather than presuming that these strategies are known in advance. It is likely that new information will emerge over time about the best strategies we human beings learn from the results of their own and others' practical experiments and a sound strategy for reducing global poverty must enable and encourage countries to undertake experiments and to learn from one another.
I remember working on a sustainable development report couple of years back which had telling example southern India where the importance of arriving at sound policies through learning is provided by the mid-day school meals introduced in southern Indian States in the early 1980s. This measure was initially criticised as populist and ineffective and as you know many Indian economists feared that the programme would add little to child nutrition, as poor parents would react to the availability of school meals by spending less on child nutrition themselves.
for some reason nly a few analysts foresaw the real reason that these schemes would be an effective developmental tool: they encouraged parents to send their children to school in larger numbers than ever before and learning from this success, the Central Government introduced subsidies for all States in India to implement such schemes, and the Supreme Court has mandated them in every State.Its funny how the Supreme Court has rightly recognised that India's States are laboratories for experimentation which should be encouraged to learn from one another and this is what Jaffery sachs was trying to say in the book
India's experience has given rise to many successful experiments from which other developing countries have learnt. Every development intervention and institutional reform that is now the focus of attention around the world — from educating mothers about the use of "oral rehydration therapy" to reduce child mortality from diarrhoea, to creating a right to public information so as to increase State and local Government accountability — is ultimately the product of such learning from experiment
Om a twist an east African country of Kenya also tried to copy the Indian model and guess what happened? Last edited on Wednesday September 14th, 2005 16:59 by COLTRANE
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ozellh20
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Posted: Friday July 22nd, 2005 09:57 |
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Thank you so what happened COLTRANE?
"On a twist an east African country of Kenya also tried to copy the Indian model and guess what happened?" Remember, I new at this and not economist so please enlighten me.
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Friday July 22nd, 2005 16:44 |
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@ozelih
Yeah Kenya tried to imitate India and it failed because of SAP's imposed by the IMF and Kenyan govt wasnt in a position to say no so in the end they just had to let it go and instead of going foward that country just went backwards
If you would have asked me what to be done to end poverty in countless countries not only in Africa but world wide I would say that a practical approach to reducing poverty must guarantee to countries the resources they need and it must allow for experimentation and learning and in economics its a system called "peer and partner review" offers a practical solution
For example countries would at a regular interval (perhaps three years) voluntarily submit their plans to reduce poverty to scrutiny by their peers — other countries in similar circumstances — and their partners — those from whom they receive or to whom they give development assistance. Each review committee would consist of representatives of governments, independent experts and civil society organisations, and would be empowered to collect and analyse information and hold hearings but in Africa who would imitate who?
Last edited on Wednesday September 14th, 2005 17:00 by COLTRANE
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ozellh20
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Posted: Tuesday July 26th, 2005 20:30 |
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| Good question Coltrane, I wonder who would imitate Africa my guess it could be perhaps, North Africa as it may be perceived favorable or maybe South Africa seeing how North Africa is typical of Arabian or Muslim country. I don't have a clue, I like your plan; it is a more realistical yet practical approach that can be more effective. One only wonders how could you sell it?
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ozellh20
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Posted: Tuesday July 26th, 2005 20:30 |
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| Good question Coltrane, I wonder who would imitate Africa my guess it could be perhaps, North Africa as it may be perceived favorable or maybe South Africa seeing how North Africa is typical of Arabian or Muslim country. I don't have a clue, I like your plan; it is a more realistical yet practical approach that can be more effective. One only wonders how could you sell it?
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Wednesday August 17th, 2005 02:17 |
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@Heather
Simple to sell it but the government has to listen,I think a country like Burundi would be appropriate as thats where I think one can set up the whole infrastructure and then the the review committee would assess a nation's plan in the light of what has worked in the past and based on an examination of the country's present opportunities and constraints. The analysis and recommendations of a peer and partner review committee would be broadly distributed within and outside the country, thereby encouraging public education and debate. A poor country's "needs and gaps" — the resources it requires in order to achieve poverty reduction goals and any shortfall that remains after taking account of the country's own capacity to raise resources — would be identified. Genuine "gaps" would then be filled through international assistance(yes I still advocate this to developing countries like Burundi)
I wont be leaving soon as I can be in London and Bujumbura helping Burundi fostering experience and learning through Peer and partner review that would be voluntary. Large countries such as India with unique circumstances and little need or desire for external resources are unlikely to wish to participate. Other smaller and poorer countries would find participation attractive. The approach would foster experiment and learning,NOTE: avoid laying down conditions heavy-handedly and enhance mutual respect and accountability. It would not lay down one-size-fits-all prescriptions but rather would look for solutions that work in local conditions.
anyways back to the book;Prof. Sachs is right: rich countries should show their commitment to reducing world poverty by increasing their aid. However, he is wrong in suggesting that there is a single way to do so that is already known. As India's example showed, empowering countries to find their own solutions offers the best hope of real progress
Last time I heard Sachs isnt well liked by some folks and @world bank and his friend wolfossen is now gone and the real meaning of regime change has taken over with that military guy Bush appointed-i heard he is a good learner Last edited on Wednesday September 14th, 2005 17:02 by COLTRANE
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Tahliba
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Posted: Sunday August 21st, 2005 20:16 |
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umbrarchist wrote: I e-mailed Jeffery Sachs when he was at Princeton about economists ignoring depreciation of durable consumer goods. I got no response like I do with most economists.
Get over it!
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Posted: Sunday August 21st, 2005 22:59 |
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@Coltrane and Tahliba....as socialists, what do YOU propose is the way forward for Africa development in a socialist context?? As much as that title is catchy, i still don't think the system of economy that exist today in Africa can help its development in anyway at all.......so i think your opinion would help here....cheers....
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Saturday September 3rd, 2005 10:16 |
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MEZ
have you read the book?
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Tuesday September 27th, 2005 15:19 |
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Mezmerized wrote: @Coltrane and Tahliba....as socialists, what do YOU propose is the way forward for Africa development in a socialist context?? As much as that title is catchy, i still don't think the system of economy that exist today in Africa can help its development in anyway at all.......so i think your opinion would help here....cheers....
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mez have u read the book?
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MwemaJ
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Posted: Tuesday September 27th, 2005 17:54 |
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excerpt:
While governments do have a role in addressing world poverty, the real question is, "How should governments best address the poverty issue?" Since more funds are annually given to address poverty through charitable contributions than via tax dollars, and are managed with greater efficiency through those humanitarian organizations, the answer to how governments should contribute to the fight against poverty is not an easy one. Should governments get bigger and more bureaucratic? Should they empower the organizations already making a difference? Should they join together making one, huge world-wide organization to address the issue?
Unfortunately, Sachs ops for the latter with a `top down' solution. He proposes the development of a goliath governmental project by suggesting the U.N. secretary general personally run the overall plan, coordinating the actions of thousands of officials in six U.N. agencies, U.N. country teams, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Yikes! That's a recipe for bureaucracy on steroids.
Coltrane and Burning Spear, it doesn't necessarily sound like an interesting read, but surely an interesting discussion has come out of it. I'm turned off by so many elements of Sachs' approach--top down approach, UN-led, and also in my experience, generally-speaking, charitable organizations/individuals and governments give quite differently and in many cases for different reasons, so to try to mesh may be too simplistic a "hope."
But perhaps I need to read in order to really understand his assertion.
Peace.
Last edited on Tuesday September 27th, 2005 18:02 by MwemaJ
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Wednesday September 28th, 2005 04:48 |
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Tahliba wrote: umbrarchist wrote: I e-mailed Jeffery Sachs when he was at Princeton about economists ignoring depreciation of durable consumer goods. I got no response like I do with most economists.
Get over it!
Get over WHAT?
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COLTRANE
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Posted: Thursday September 29th, 2005 05:53 |
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| interesting...
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Posted: Wednesday October 5th, 2005 12:29 |
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| http://www.parecon.org/pelac.htm
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