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One Zero Seven
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 06:53 |
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In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...the Best Knower.
Surah 13
4 And in the earth are tracts side by side, and gardens of vines, and corn, and palm-trees growing from one root and distinct roots they are watered with one water; and We make some of them to excel others in fruit. Surely there are signs in this for a people who understand.
Surah 35
27 See you not that Allah sends down water from the clouds, then We bring forth therewith fruits of various hues? And in the mountains are streaks, white and red, of various hues and (others) intensely black.
28 And of men and beasts and cattle there are various colours likewise. Those of His servants only who are possessed of knowledge fear Allah. Surely Allah is Mighty, Forgiving.
"We often confuse unity with uniformity. In reality it is the spirit of unity which creates uniformity for the sake of its beauty and protection it gives. Through out all ages both have existed: unity as the inner nature of every soul and the only purpose of life, and uniformity to help to fulfil that purpose. Unity is the goal and uniformity the means to reach that goal, but often the means has obscured the purpose. All through the ages the different religions, which have been given to man for his spiritual development with the sole idea of unity, have gradually become a kind of community or nationality. Many people who belong to a Church accepts its dogmas, claim a certain name for their religion, and consider all other children of God as separate; by doing so they lose the very seed of wisdom for whose development that religion was given. This error has existed from the beginning, so that instead of touching the true spirit, people have lost reality by seeking a false objective.
"Religious differences have caused endless wars and disasters for the human race. The reason of this is that the spirit of unity has not been recognized, while undue regard has been paid to uniformity. In the present age, when the spirit of religion is at its lowest ebb and only the uniformity remains, divisions of classes and discords of all kinds spring up; one party, one class against another, the spirit of rivalry, jealousy, and destruction everywhere. The effect of this has been to keep man away from the consciousness of God. Very few indeed recognized Him; all humanity is laboring under a great unrest; and yet man thinks he is progressing while all the time he only progresses towards still greater unrest."
--Hazrat Inayat Khan, UNITY and UNIFORMITY
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jamal786
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 13:11 |
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| ...Dont you think you are being a hypocrite! Wouldnt it be reasonable to say that you are not the best person to talk about unity because you believe that the white man is the devil regardless of what religion they belong to. therefore you are uniform to the racist ideas of 'Nation of islam' and therefore perpetuate the divisions in society. Last edited on Friday January 14th, 2005 14:16 by jamal786
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One Zero Seven
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 14:55 |
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Allah knows best, and you are not He.
2:14 And when they meet those who believe, they say, We believe; and when they are alone with their devils, they say: Surely we are with you, we were only mocking.
YUSUFALI: When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting."
PICKTHAL: And when they fall in with those who believe, they say: We believe; but when they go apart to their devils they declare: Lo! we are with you; verily we did but mock.
SHAKIR: And when they meet those who believe, they say: We believe; and when they are alone with their Shaitans, they say: Surely we are with you, we were only mocking.
2:102 And they follow what the devils fabricated against the kingdom of Solomon. And Solomon disbelieved not, but the devils disbelieved, teaching men enchantment...
YUSUFALI: They followed what the evil ones gave out (falsely) against the power of Solomon: the blasphemers Were, not Solomon, but the evil ones, teaching men Magic...
PICKTHAL: And follow that which the devils falsely related against the kingdom of Solomon. Solomon disbelieved not; but the devils disbelieved, teaching mankind magic...
SHAKIR: And they followed what the Shaitans chanted of sorcery in the reign of Sulaiman, and Sulaiman was not an unbeliever, but the Shaitans disbelieved...
6:71 Say: Shall we call, besides Allah, on that which profits us not nor harms us, and shall we be turned back on our heels after Allah has guided us? Like one whom the devils cause to follow his low desires...
YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall we indeed call on others besides Allah,- things that can do us neither good nor harm,- and turn on our heels after receiving guidance from Allah? - like one whom the evil ones have made into a fool...
PICKTHAL: Say: Shall we cry, instead of unto Allah, unto that which neither profiteth us nor hurteth us, and shall we turn back after Allah hath guided us, like one bewildered whom the devils have infatuated in the earth...
SHAKIR: Say: Shall we call on that besides Allah, which does not benefit us nor harm us, and shall we be returned back on our heels after Allah has guided us, like him whom the Shaitans have made to fall down perplexed in the earth...
6:113 And thus did We make for every prophet an enemy, the devils from among men and jinn, some of them inspiring others with gilded speech to deceive (them). And if your Lord pleased, they would not do it, so leave them alone with what they forge --
YUSUFALI: Likewise did We make for every Messenger an enemy,- evil ones among men and jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception...
PICKTHAL: Thus have We appointed unto every prophet an adversary - devils of humankind and jinn who inspire in one another plausible discourse through guile...
SHAKIR: And thus did We make for every prophet an enemy, the Shaitans from among men and jinn, some of them suggesting to others varnished falsehood to deceive (them)...
21:82 And of the devils there were those who dived for him and did other work besides that; and We kept guard over them:
YUSUFALI: And of the evil ones, were some who dived for him, and did other work besides; and it was We Who guarded them.
PICKTHAL: And of the evil ones (subdued We unto him) some who dived (for pearls) for him and did other work, and We were warders unto them.
SHAKIR: And of the rebellious people there were those who dived for him and did other work besides that, and We kept guard over them;
38:36 So We made the wind subservient to him it made his command to run gently wherever he desired, (37) And the devils, every builder and diver,
YUSUFALI: As also the evil ones, (including) every kind of builder and diver,-
PICKTHAL: And the unruly, every builder and diver (made We subservient),
SHAKIR: And the shaitans, every builder and diver,
67:5 And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We make them means of conjectures for the devils, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.
YUSUFALI: And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.
PICKTHAL: And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.
SHAKIR: And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.
Is ALLAH a Hypocrite?
RM
Last edited on Friday January 14th, 2005 15:47 by One Zero Seven
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jamal786
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 18:05 |
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| So you admit it then that you believe the white man is the devil, which is not very unifying, so you are the hypocrite, do not try to partner Allah in your crimes. pick any Qur'an quote you want, because nowhere in the Qur'an does it say that the white man is the devil. Islam is a religion for ALL mankind.
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jamal786
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 19:02 |
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"""In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful....the Best Knower.
As-Salaam Alaikum.
If we were truly following the Guidance of Allah in the Holy Qur'an, there would be no NEED for "feminism" in Islam. Islam is a Complete way of life which safeguards the rights and freedoms of ALL, regardless of race or class or gender.
The PROBLEM is that MEN have not learned the VALUE and the SACREDNESS of the WOMAN, and have used their MISUNDERSTANDING of Allah's Revealed Word to justify devaluing and abusing the woman for their own selfish purposes.
There are many muslim women who dislike the way they are treated by muslim men, but they do not leave ISLAM. This is because they understand that ISLAM is right for them, even if some of the men are not.
RM """
.....................................................................................................................................
This is what you said on the other thread "feminism in islam".
So...
Do you ignore that Islam is a Complete way of life which safeguards the rights and freedoms of ALL, regardless of race or class or gender, when it comes to 'nation of islam'?
Or do you misunderstand the Qur'an?
Or do you not understand the value of mankind?
Or do you devalue and abuse mankind?
Or are you just a hypocrite? Last edited on Friday January 14th, 2005 19:03 by jamal786
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silver moon
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 21:01 |
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@One Zero Seven
can a white porson join the 'Nation of islam'
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jamal786
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 21:45 |
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the following rubbish is from his website that he promotes:
""The Honorable Elijah Muhammad taught us that the "devil" is not a spirit underneath the ground...not some man in tights, with a pitchfork, at the center of the earth, waiting to torture and punish you for eternity, for the few years of life that you had on earth. He taught us that the "devil" is actually the Caucasian white man, the European. However, the Hon. Elijah Muhammad also taught us "where" the Caucasian came from, and gave us insight into why they are as they are, and why they were allowed to exist as they do.""
...so just to specify the question;
CAN A CAUCASIAN WHITE PERSON JOIN THE 'NATION OF ISLAM'?
WOULD YOU SUPPORT THEIR APPLICATION TO BECOME A MEMBER?
...if they are not allowed to join:
CAN A PERSON OF CAUCASIAN WHITE HERITAGE OR ORIGIN JOIN THE 'NATION OF ISLAM'?
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One Zero Seven
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 22:21 |
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In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...the Best Knower.
Salaam...
jamal786 wrote: Do you ignore that Islam is a Complete way of life which safeguards the rights and freedoms of ALL, regardless of race or class or gender, when it comes to 'nation of islam'?
No, I do not ignore that. However, if Allah calls certain people "devils" or "evil ones", and He gives us the standard by which devil can be identified, particularly in SELF, then You have no basis for condemning me when I am only saying what ALLAH, Himself, says.
Or do you misunderstand the Qur'an?
Who do you know that COMPLETELY understands the Holy Qur'an? However, I do believe that Allah - in the Person of Master Fard Muhammad - has given us the True Interpretation of the Book, which yields the truest understanding of it. Either way, I am only a Student, not a Master.
Or do you not understand the value of mankind?
What greater value to place on Man (not manKIND) than to assert that He is Divine by Nature?
Or do you devalue and abuse mankind?
I have abused no one, I have mistreated no one. It is against my Faith as a Muslim.
Or are you just a hypocrite?
A "hypocrite", by definition, is a person who speaks from their mouth what is not in their heart. They pretend to believe when in the presence of believers, but secretly harbour disbelief in their hearts. What they say in the presence of the Believers is different from what they say among themselves, when they think no one will discover them.
What I say here I will say anywhere and everywhere, by Allah's permission. What I say from my mouth is EXACTLY what is in my heart. Therefore, the label "hypocrite" cannot apply to me. The most you could accuse me of is being a "disbeliever" in what YOU think is the right interpretation, and that's fine by me because you are not my judge.
I think that if you are looking for someone to crucify or condemn, you should start in the Mirror. Your attitude and demeanor have consistently been far below that which is expected of a Righteous person...or a person Striving for Righteousness, according to the behaviour of a Muslim described in the Qur'an and Hadiths.
Perhaps you should read the Initial Post once again.
May Allah Bless you with His Light and Spirit.
RM
Last edited on Friday January 14th, 2005 22:23 by One Zero Seven
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One Zero Seven
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 22:38 |
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jamal786 wrote: the following rubbish is from his website that he promotes:
""The Honorable Elijah Muhammad taught us that the "devil" is not a spirit underneath the ground...not some man in tights, with a pitchfork, at the center of the earth, waiting to torture and punish you for eternity, for the few years of life that you had on earth. He taught us that the "devil" is actually the Caucasian white man, the European. However, the Hon. Elijah Muhammad also taught us "where" the Caucasian came from, and gave us insight into why they are as they are, and why they were allowed to exist as they do.""
Yes, this is on my site, and I am thankful for your help in promoting it. (smile) Anyone who wishes to read the entire page may do so.
...so just to specify the question;
CAN A CAUCASIAN WHITE PERSON JOIN THE 'NATION OF ISLAM'?
WOULD YOU SUPPORT THEIR APPLICATION TO BECOME A MEMBER?
Once again, the "Nation of Islam" is the Entire Global Community of Muslims. There are already white people who are Muslims, so there are already white people who are members of the Nation of Islam. HOWEVER, "The Lost-Found Members of the Nation of Islam in the West", which is the full name of the Muslims under the Teachings of the Hon. Elijah Muhammad, was started by Master Fard Muhammad for the purpose of bringing the ex-slaves (so-called negroes) in America back to their true Selves. The approach that was/is used is specifically designed to heal us from a specific condition which racism and slavery have put us in. Master Fard Muhammad did not want us to get caught up in emulating the Arabs, so we were isolated from them. He did not want our development and training and healing to be hindered by the presence of the very people who destroyed us - white people, so they were kept out of the Mosque. This will be the case, as far as I understand it, until we are sufficiently healed as a whole, and until the mind of white supremacy is uprooted in white people. Any white person who is striving to be a good Muslim is my brother in faith, though not by nature, and I am obligated to treat him as I would like to be treated.
No DEVIL can be a member of the Nation of Islam.
RM
Last edited on Friday January 14th, 2005 22:40 by One Zero Seven
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jamal786
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Posted: Friday January 14th, 2005 23:05 |
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CAN A CAUCASIAN WHITE PERSON JOIN THE 'NATION OF ISLAM' (ie NOI meaning those taught by and followers of elijah muhammad and louis farakhan) ?
YES or NO?
(YES or NO answer only please)Last edited on Friday January 14th, 2005 23:14 by jamal786
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One Zero Seven
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Posted: Saturday January 15th, 2005 00:12 |
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Some questions deserve more than a "yes or no" answer, and some "yes or no" questions are designed to trap the one being questioned.
Your Question has already been answered.
Salaam.
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One Zero Seven
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Posted: Saturday January 15th, 2005 00:22 |
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jamal786 wrote: So you admit it then that you believe the white man is the devil, which is not very unifying, so you are the hypocrite, do not try to partner Allah in your crimes. pick any Qur'an quote you want, because nowhere in the Qur'an does it say that the white man is the devil. Islam is a religion for ALL mankind.
You just do not understand. If the white man's History and Behavior don't convince you of who he is, then NOTHING will. Compare all the traits of a devil to the open history and behavior of the Caucasian...there is no difference.
The Hon. Elijah Muhammad spoke the truth when he said that "some people do not want you to teach them who the devil is, because they love the devil."
You think the white people you are defending love YOU??
You think they want to see the Black Man returned to his place of power and sovereignty and the Father of Civilization? No.
The truth is available for those who truly seek it.
RM
Last edited on Saturday January 15th, 2005 00:23 by One Zero Seven
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jamal786
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Posted: Saturday January 15th, 2005 01:33 |
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So then...
You make a thread about "UNITY", but refuse to answer whether white caucasians can join your group!!!!
...that is very "unifying" of you!!
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jamal786
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Posted: Saturday January 15th, 2005 01:41 |
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"Compare all the traits of a devil to the open history and behavior of the Caucasian...there is no difference....The Hon. Elijah Muhammad spoke the truth when he said that "some people do not want you to teach them who the devil is, because they love the devil" {107}
...i dont aim to claim love, hate or affiliation for any particular race or colour of people. there are good and bad in all groups and individuals, and many, if not all people change behaviourally and genetically from the behavioural and genetical traits of their ancestors to some extent.
your statement is a gross generalisation. or do you have some evidence why "they" are all the same?
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One Zero Seven
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Posted: Saturday January 15th, 2005 02:22 |
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jamal786 wrote: So then... You make a thread about "UNITY", but refuse to answer whether white caucasians can join your group!!!! ...that is very "unifying" of you!!
Not that one thing has anything at all to do with the other...
Do you know any Caucasians who sincerely want to Join the Nation of Islam under the Leadership of the Hon. Louis Farrakhan?
Find me ONE Caucasian who sincerely wants to join the Nation of Islam, under the teachings of the Hon. Elijah Muhammad, and I will talk to THEM; and I can all but guarantee you that they will understand and accept the answer I gave you.
It is not that I refuse to answer your question. I have answered it. It is that you refuse to accept the answer given. You want me to give a "simple yes or no" answer so you can feel justified in your condemnation of the Nation of Islam, and thereby trivialize the very real needs and condition of Black people and the SOLUTION Allah has Given to address them.
For the Record, I don't want unity with the wicked. Do YOU?
RM
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jamal786
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Posted: Saturday January 15th, 2005 04:45 |
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I do understand your answers and all the little extra meanings in it too! On one hand i am trying to understand why you believe such a thing, on the other, yes i did want you to be specific for those that cannot read into things as such and may be fooled by your message of unity which is not very universal in effect. if your message is "universal" for black people only, then why didnt you just make it clear. Anyhow, it is a problematic view you have as many black people have white genes in them as a result of slavery, evolution etc, so where do you draw the line, is it based on visble whiteness or genetic, do you use a maximum white gene percentage cut off point for potential members.
Anyway this sub-discussion is between you and i, so i say to you;
can i show you a caucasian that wants to join NOI?
NO
do i want unity with the wickid?
NO
...however, my point is that not all white people are wicked, and many of them are good people, as with some of those members of all the races, and some of which are accepted into islam, you even said it youself earlier. Islam accepts all people and gives them the chance to prove their worth, 'nation of islam' does not. the view you take is your perogertive, so why not just be clear about it. NoI believes the white man is the devil, whereas Islam does not... simple as. Last edited on Saturday January 15th, 2005 04:49 by jamal786
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Posted: Saturday January 15th, 2005 05:42 |
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In the Name of Allah...
Since you cannot find me a Caucasian who sincerely wants to join the NOI, then your question is moot.
I have personally spoken to white people who did NOT want to join the NOI, but who understood and appreciated the same answer I gave you. They are not suffering from the kind of self-hatred that we as a people suffer from, so it's easier for them to accept certain truths, even if they are unpleasant...if it is put to them in the right way.
There are many Caucasians who literally follow the Hon. Louis Farrakhan and agree with the Teachings of the Hon. Elijah Muhammad, but do not wish to be a part of the Nation-proper for the reasons I stated in the answer that you cannot accept.
White people do not need to be UNIFORM with us to be in UNITY with us...which is EXACTLY what the theme of this thread is.
However, there is something in the nature of their makeup which must be taken into consideration before we can even begin to talk about Unity.
Your responses continue to prove that you see only what you want to see...hear only what you want to hear. So there is no further need to continue wasting my time with you.
This will probably be my last response to you. So you may have the last word.
RM
Last edited on Saturday January 15th, 2005 05:46 by One Zero Seven
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jamal786
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Posted: Saturday January 15th, 2005 13:53 |
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...Well thankyou for the last word!!
1. ""There are many Caucasians who literally follow the Hon. Louis Farrakhan and agree with the Teachings of the Hon. Elijah Muhammad, but do not wish to be a part of the Nation-proper for the reasons I stated in the answer that you cannot accept........however, there is something in the nature of their makeup which must be taken into consideration before we can even begin to talk about Unity."" {107}
....so white people follow NOI but dont want to join.... yeah right.... .... and if they wanted to join they would not be allowed..... ....and why is this.....
.....................................................................................................
2. ""He did not want our development and training and healing to be hindered by the presence of the very people who destroyed us - white people, so they were kept out of the Mosque. This will be the case, as far as I understand it, until we are sufficiently healed as a whole, and until the mind of white supremacy is uprooted in white people"" {107)
.......sounds more like either black supremacy or black cowardice to me!!!!
...................................................................................................
3. ""They are not suffering from the kind of self-hatred that we as a people suffer from"" {107}
........instead you suffer from hatred of others. we do not "as a people" suffer form self-hatred!!... ...that is so 1960's.... get real.... the worlds moved on now..... many black people are comfortable, successful and in prominant positions, and many are not, so to generalise on this is a misconception.
..............................................................................................
thats three strikes!!
...all this is not very unifying.... for the human race as a whole, or for black people, particularly those with white ancestors, descendants, relatives and friends.Last edited on Saturday January 15th, 2005 13:59 by jamal786
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