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Shemsi en Tehuti
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Posted: Thursday April 19th, 2007 18:44 |
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Shemsi en Tehuti wrote: The people who knew the Prophet Muhammad are clear that he was a White man...
In Sahih Al Bukhary vol. 1 no. 63, we read "while we were sitting with the Prophet, a man came and said, "who amongst you is Mohammed?" We replied, "this white man reclining on his arm..."
In volume 2 Hadith no. 122 refers to Mohammed as a "white person" and in vol. 2 Hadith no. 141 we are told that when Mohammed raised his arms, "the whiteness of his armpits became visible."
Volume 1, Book 8, Number 367: "He uncovered his thigh and I saw the whiteness of the thigh of the Prophet."
Islam is a religion, whose sacred writings contain explicit denigrating remarks about African people:
Mohammed referred to Blacks as "raisin heads". (Sahih Al Bukhary vol. 1, no. 662 and vol. 9, no. 256).
Mohammed is quoted as saying that Blacks are, "pug-nosed slaves". (Sahih Moslem vol. 9 pages 46 and 47).
Hadith; vol.9:162,163: Muhammad warned that dreams of black women meant disease was forthcoming.
"I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!' He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks.... Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom." [9] "Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey's.'" ~Ishaq 243
"Ham [Africans] begat all those who are black and curly-haired, while Japheth [Turks] begat all those who are full-faced with small eyes, and Shem [Arabs] begat everyone who is handsome of face with beautiful hair. Noah prayed that the hair of Ham's descendants would not grow beyond their ears, and that whenever his descendants met Shem's, the latter would enslave them." ~Tabari II:21
"It is your folly to fight the Apostle, for Allah's army is bound to disgrace you. We brought them to the pit. Hell was their meeting place. We collected them there, black slaves, men of no descent." ~Ishaq 450
"The black troops and slaves of the Meccans cried out and the Muslims replied, ‘Allah destroy your sight, you impious rascals.'" ~Ishaq 374
"The Prophet said, ‘Let the negro slave of Dinar perish. And if he is pierced with a thorn, let him not find anyone to take it out for him.... If he [the black slave] asks for anything it shall not be granted, and if he needs intercession [to get into paradise], his intercession will be denied.'" ~Bukhari:V4B52N137
Qur'an [39.60] And on the day of resurrection you shall see those who lied against Allah; their faces shall be blackened. Is there not in hell an abode for the proud? (Why was "black" equated with evil in Islam?)
Last edited on Thursday April 19th, 2007 21:27 by
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Posted: Thursday April 19th, 2007 21:29 |
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| Thread restored....
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MuslimTruthRevealed
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 18:59 |
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Assalaam Alaikum
We already brought the evidence of the 'original Arabs' lineage, geography and archeological evidence, and your still parroting and regurgitating websites.
Yet now you want Muhammed to be 'white' 
Excuse me, but the hadiths that you refer to were written between 150-250 years AFTER Muhammed,as lived!
Tabari, Ishaq, Muslim and Bukhari did NOT 'know' Muhammed,as the LAST Tabi'Tabieen (one who knew one of the companions NOT Muhammed) died 99 years AFTER Muhammed,as died!
(The people and references you mentioned were NOT even born yet)
Every reference your making is from 'hearsay', and as you know 'hearsay' is NOT acceptable evidence in ANY court of Law.
Specifically, when hundreds of years have passed between the SUBJECT of the statement and those who wrote those accounts.
What I would like to know, How can an Arab be 'white' in the hot, arid Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century?
Explain that please.....
According to AI-Jahiz, the guardian of the sacred Kaaba Abd Al-Muttalib fathered ten Lords, Black as the night and magnificent. One of these men was Abdallah, the father of Muhammad. Uthman Amr lbn Bahr Al-Jahiz. The Book of the Glory of the Black Race (Los Angeles: Preston, 1981), 50.
Uthman Jahiz was in Medina with the Prophet and his family!
So who do we believe? Those who NEVER knew ANYONE from Medina during the time of the Prophet or Uthman Jahiz who was THERE in Medina with the Prophets Family!
EBONY AND BRONZE RACE AND ETHNICITY IN EARLY ARABIA AND THE ISLAMIC WORLD By Wayne B. Chandler in ‘African Presence in Early Asia’ by Van Sertima Page 287
‘The Copts are a race of Blacks. Khalil Ar-Rahman asked for a son from them, so there was born to him a great prophet from them, who was Isma’il, the Father of the Arabs. The Prophet Muhammad (God bless him and grant him salvation) also asked them for a son, and Ibrahim was born to him, and the angel Gabriel made it his surname’
Uthman AL-Jahiz 860 CE
Uthman Amr Ibn Bahr Al-Jahiz, renowned Islamic historian, theologian and prose writer, recorded the following commentary, in 860 C.E., on this race-mixing:
“When they mixed with our groups, they were said to be tan and brownish-black.. .And their name was derived from ours, at a time when we were the only ones to be called Blacks. They the Semites must not be called Black unless they are from us.�
Uthman Amr Ibn Bahr Al-Jahiz is in Medina, Tabarai, Ishaq, Bukhari and the other hadith collectors and writers are NOT even born yet, their parents are NOT even born yet!
"Muhammad, by his very words, identifies his race. In his appeal to the Blacks of Arabia he called himself an “Arab of the Arabs, of the purest blood of your land, of the family of the Hashim and of the tribe of Qureysh.� In professing to be of the “purest blood� of Arabia, he refers to its Black population as the only “pure� and indigenous inhabitants of the peninsula. Muhammad identifies his tribe as the Koreysh, and his family as Hashim, a name which appears in the Prophet’s family lineage, for it was the title of his great-grandfather. The Hashim, though not prosperous, was an old and noble southern Arabian family."
Original Arabs were Black and they existed before Ishmael, his father and his; grandfather. The FIRST to speak classical Arabic was Yu Arab Ibn Qahtan. In fact this ‘Yu’Arab’ became the name given to this ancient Afro/ Arab tribe.
This was cited by As-Suyuti in his al-Wasaa’il fi Musaamarat al-Awaa’il
Qahtan was the ancestor of the Arabs called Arab Al-Muta’arribah who had mixed with the original true Arabs called Arab al-‘Aribah or the Arab al-Baa’idah (the lost Arabs). They are called lost, because their identity submerged into other African tribes who lived in remote Arabia Felix (Yemen) , Somalia, Ethiopia, the Tigre of Eritrea and Nubia
Now explain how a person who comes from 'black' folks, whose lineage is ALL black suddenly becomes 'white'?
Muhammed even states “(I am of the) Arab of the Arabs, of the purest blood of your land, of the family of the Hashim and of the tribe of Qureysh.�
Al-Jahiz noted in 860 C.E.: “Abd Al-Muttalib fathered ten lords, black as the night and magnificent... .Abd Allah Ibn Abbas was blackest in magnificence, and the family of Abu Talib were the most noble of men; and they were black with black skin.� Abd Al-Muttalib was Muhammad’s grandfather. One of those ten sons was Abdullah, Muhammad’s father; another was Abu Talib, Muhammad’s uncle.
Again, Uthman Amr Ibn Bahr Al-Jahiz is in Medina, Tabarai, Ishaq, Bukhari and the other hadith collectors and writers are NOT even born yet, their parents are NOT even born yet!
Uthman Amr Ibn Bahr Al-JahizRisalat mufakharat al-sudan 'ala al-bidan (Treatise on the Superiority of Blacks over Whites).
"We Blacks have conquered the country of the Arabs as far as Mecca and governed them. The desert swarm with the number of our men who married your women and who became chiefs and defended you against your enemies. You even have sayings in your language which vaunt the deeds of our kings &madash; deeds which you often placed above your own; this you would not have done had you not considered them superior to your own. We defeated Dhu Nowas (Jewish ruler of Yemen) and killed all the Himyarite princes, but the Arabs and Whites (from Europe) have never conquered our country. Our people, the Zinges (an African race), revolted forty times in the Euphrates, driving the inhabitants from their homes... Blacks are physically stronger. A single one of them can lift stones of great weight and carry burdens such as several whites could not lift nor carry between them. They are brave, strong... — these good traits are the gifts of God."
So who do we believe?
Those who NEVER knew ANYONE from Medina during the time of the Prophet or
Uthman Jahiz who was THERE in Medina with the Prophets Family!
Your just parroting and regurgitating websites.
Last edited on Friday April 20th, 2007 19:09 by MuslimTruthRevealed
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Shemsi en Tehuti
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 21:02 |
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MuslimTruthRevealed wrote:
Excuse me, but the hadiths that you refer to were written between 150-250 years AFTER Muhammed,as lived!
Tabari, Ishaq, Muslim and Bukhari did NOT 'know' Muhammed,as the LAST Tabi'Tabieen (one who knew one of the companions NOT Muhammed) died 99 years AFTER Muhammed,as died!
(The people and references you mentioned were NOT even born yet)
Every reference your making is from 'hearsay', and as you know 'hearsay' is NOT acceptable evidence in ANY court of Law.
Specifically, when hundreds of years have passed between the SUBJECT of the statement and those who wrote those accounts.
What motivation would there be to portray the Prophet Muhammad differently from that he was by the early followers? Even if there was a misconception, how could he turn from "black" to "white" by word of mouth?
What I would like to know, How can an Arab be 'white' in the hot, arid Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century?
Wow...how are the King Fahd and other Saudis surviving in the "arid Arabian Peninsula"???
...they and other Arabs must be about to burn up any day now with their pale skin...
MuslimTruthRevealed wrote: According to AI-Jahiz, the guardian of the sacred Kaaba Abd Al-Muttalib fathered ten Lords, Black as the night and magnificent. One of these men was Abdallah, the father of Muhammad. Uthman Amr lbn Bahr Al-Jahiz. The Book of the Glory of the Black Race (Los Angeles: Preston, 1981), 50.
Uthman Jahiz was in Medina with the Prophet and his family!
So who do we believe? Those who NEVER knew ANYONE from Medina during the time of the Prophet or Uthman Jahiz who was THERE in Medina with the Prophets Family!
EBONY AND BRONZE RACE AND ETHNICITY IN EARLY ARABIA AND THE ISLAMIC WORLD By Wayne B. Chandler in ‘African Presence in Early Asia’ by Van Sertima Page 287
‘The Copts are a race of Blacks. Khalil Ar-Rahman asked for a son from them, so there was born to him a great prophet from them, who was Isma’il, the Father of the Arabs. The Prophet Muhammad (God bless him and grant him salvation) also asked them for a son, and Ibrahim was born to him, and the angel Gabriel made it his surname’
Uthman AL-Jahiz 860 CE
Uthman Amr Ibn Bahr Al-Jahiz, renowned Islamic historian, theologian and prose writer, recorded the following commentary, in 860 C.E., on this race-mixing:
“When they mixed with our groups, they were said to be tan and brownish-black.. .And their name was derived from ours, at a time when we were the only ones to be called Blacks. They the Semites must not be called Black unless they are from us.�
Uthman Amr Ibn Bahr Al-Jahiz is in Medina, Tabarai, Ishaq, Bukhari and the other hadith collectors and writers are NOT even born yet, their parents are NOT even born yet!
"Muhammad, by his very words, identifies his race. In his appeal to the Blacks of Arabia he called himself an “Arab of the Arabs, of the purest blood of your land, of the family of the Hashim and of the tribe of Qureysh.� In professing to be of the “purest blood� of Arabia, he refers to its Black population as the only “pure� and indigenous inhabitants of the peninsula. Muhammad identifies his tribe as the Koreysh, and his family as Hashim, a name which appears in the Prophet’s family lineage, for it was the title of his great-grandfather. The Hashim, though not prosperous, was an old and noble southern Arabian family."
Original Arabs were Black and they existed before Ishmael, his father and his; grandfather. The FIRST to speak classical Arabic was Yu Arab Ibn Qahtan. In fact this ‘Yu’Arab’ became the name given to this ancient Afro/ Arab tribe.
This was cited by As-Suyuti in his al-Wasaa’il fi Musaamarat al-Awaa’il
Qahtan was the ancestor of the Arabs called Arab Al-Muta’arribah who had mixed with the original true Arabs called Arab al-‘Aribah or the Arab al-Baa’idah (the lost Arabs). They are called lost, because their identity submerged into other African tribes who lived in remote Arabia Felix (Yemen) , Somalia, Ethiopia, the Tigre of Eritrea and Nubia
Now explain how a person who comes from 'black' folks, whose lineage is ALL black suddenly becomes 'white'?
Muhammed even states “(I am of the) Arab of the Arabs, of the purest blood of your land, of the family of the Hashim and of the tribe of Qureysh.�
Al-Jahiz noted in 860 C.E.: “Abd Al-Muttalib fathered ten lords, black as the night and magnificent... .Abd Allah Ibn Abbas was blackest in magnificence, and the family of Abu Talib were the most noble of men; and they were black with black skin.� Abd Al-Muttalib was Muhammad’s grandfather. One of those ten sons was Abdullah, Muhammad’s father; another was Abu Talib, Muhammad’s uncle.
Again, Uthman Amr Ibn Bahr Al-Jahiz is in Medina, Tabarai, Ishaq, Bukhari and the other hadith collectors and writers are NOT even born yet, their parents are NOT even born yet!
First, your sources refer to Copts as "Blacks", so therefore regular Arabs must have been deemed much more lighter than Copts. Here is a typical Copt in Egypt...
...and we know that Copts are a mix of all kinds of Mediterranean and West Asian peoples that kept invading Egypt and settling in the Delta. Therefore, the concept of "Black" from your sources are subjective, and is destructive to your whole argument...
Second, you say Al-Jahiz was born before all the sources I quoted, when Al-Jahiz was born in 776 CE when Ibn Ishaq came before him being born about 704 CE and died about 761...meaning Ibn Ishaq lived and died before Al-Jahiz was even thought of in the womb. Furthermore, Ibn Ishaq was born in Medina so your questions on veracity have no credibility especially since the person you quote was born after Ibn Ishaq. No one even knows where Al-Jahiz was born, but simply know he spent tim in what is now known as Iraq in Basra and Baghdad...can you really be serious here?
Uthman Amr Ibn Bahr Al-JahizRisalat mufakharat al-sudan 'ala al-bidan (Treatise on the Superiority of Blacks over Whites).
"We Blacks have conquered the country of the Arabs as far as Mecca and governed them. The desert swarm with the number of our men who married your women and who became chiefs and defended you against your enemies. You even have sayings in your language which vaunt the deeds of our kings &madash; deeds which you often placed above your own; this you would not have done had you not considered them superior to your own. We defeated Dhu Nowas (Jewish ruler of Yemen) and killed all the Himyarite princes, but the Arabs and Whites (from Europe) have never conquered our country. Our people, the Zinges (an African race), revolted forty times in the Euphrates, driving the inhabitants from their homes... Blacks are physically stronger. A single one of them can lift stones of great weight and carry burdens such as several whites could not lift nor carry between them. They are brave, strong... — these good traits are the gifts of God."
My goodness...this is pathetic. Your previous quote just had Muhammad stating that he was a pure Arab, now you have a quote stating that the "Blacks have conquered the country of the Arabs". Obviously, the Arabs are not considered Blacks, nor vice versa. You just quote shyt and masssage it to mean what you want it to mean...more Muslim Shyt Revealed...
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MuslimTruthRevealed
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 23:49 |
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Assalaam Alaikum
Lets start with 'baby steps'.....
Google 'Coptics' and 'Copts' then come talk to me.....
English word Copt is from New Latin Coptus, which is derived from Arabic qubá¹i قبطي (pl: qubṠقبط and aqbÄ?Ṡأقباط), an Arabisation of the Coptic word kubti (Bohairic) and/or kuptaion (Sahidic). This word is in turn derived from the Greek word ΑἰγÏ?πτιος, aiguptios: "Egyptian", from Αἴγυπτος, aiguptos: "Egypt".
"Medieval writers before the Mamluk period often used the words Copts (Arabic: قبط) and Egyptians (Arabic: مصريون) interchangeably to describe all the people of Egypt whether Christian or Muslim"
Uthman Jahiz wrote BEFORE the Mamluk Period, thus when he referred or used the ARABIC word for 'Copts' he was referring to Arabs.
Your references and pictures are NOT reflective of the time of Muhammed. The 'Copts'(during that time) descend from Nubians as does Muhammed and his family descend from the original Arabs.
They were NOT 'white', they were 'black' and define their origin from Nubia!
Your little pictures are of SEMETIC Arabs, Northern Arab tribes of Iraq, Syria, and the Persian Gulf are called Arab al-Musta’ribah (‘Arabized Arabs’)
NOT
Arab Al-Muta’arribah who had mixed with the original true Arabs called Arab al-‘Aribah or the Arab al-Baa’idah (the lost Arabs) who lived in remote Arabia Felix (Yemen) , Somalia, Ethiopia, the Tigre of Eritrea and Nubia
Original Copts have the same lineage as the Arab Al-Muta’arribah thus the SAME lineage as Muhammed!
**************************************************************************************
Since Ishaq is your 'boy'.....
"At the age of thirty, he traveled to the Islamic province of Egypt to attend lectures given by the traditionist Yazid ibn Abu Habib. He later fell out with his fellow traditionists in Medina and traveled eastwards, towards the what is now Iraq. There, the new Abbasid dynasty, having overthrown the Umayyad caliphs, was establishing a new capital at Baghdad. Ibn Ishaq moved to the capital and likely found patrons in the new regime. (Robinson 2003, p. 27) He died in Baghdad in 761."
Ishaq and his partner Hisham Ibn Urwah and Tabari all ran to Iraq after getting booted out of Medina.
Ishaq was under the Khalifah Abu Bakr Siddiq, and obviously had some issues. (Reference: The Men of Medina, Volume II, page 271)
"Ibn Ishaq's work is lost and is now only known in the recension of Ibn Hisham. Ibn Hisham was born in Egypt, studied in Kufa/Iraq"
Someone else, Ibn Hisham WROTE that garbage you posted and attributed it to Ibn Ishaq!
Let me help you out http://www.answers.com/topic/ibn-ishaq
"There are about 600 hadiths in Ibn Ishaq's collection and most of them have what appears to be acceptable isnads. But the later hadith collectors rarely used any material from the Sirat. There are almost as many poems as hadiths, but later commentaries tend to view them as worthless because they feel so many of them were forged"
Rarely used and accusations of forgery?
"Ibn Ishaq probably never wrote a "book" in the ordinary sense of book . What has come down to us seems to be from the notes taken by his pupils. The standard source is now the "Sirat al-Nabi" ("Life of the Prophet") of Abd al-Malik ibn Hisham (died 830, 835 or perhaps much later) which is a systematic presentation of Ibn Ishaq's material with a commentary by Ibn Hisham. This should be supplemented by the extracts in al-Tabari and other authors. For example, the story about the Satanic Verses was not reported by Ibn Hisham. But it was repeated by al-Tabari and others. Ibn Hisham makes no secret of the fact that he omitted some of the material Ibn Ishaq included"
"Ibn Ishaq's work originally consisted of three almost equal parts.....What remains is based on Arabic traditions and the Jewish scriptures."
Jewish Scriptures?
"Ibn Ishaq was born in Medina approximately 85 years after Hijra, which is approximately 704. He is thus considered one of the Tabi‘in and he is reported to have met Anas ibn Malik. "
Yaqub ibn Shaibah says: He [i.e. Hisham] is highly reliable, his narratives are acceptable, except what he narrated after shifting to Iraq. (Tehzeeb al-Tehzeeb, Ibn Hajar Al-`Asqalaaniy, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, Vol. 11, pg. 50)
I have been told that Malik [ibn Anas] objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq. (Tehzi'bu'l-tehzi'b, Ibn Hajar Al-`Asqala'ni, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, Vol. 11, pg. 50)
ALL of the accounts and hadiths from Iraq are NOT considered 'reliable' because thats where the enemies of the 'Rightly Guided' Khalifahs ran off to.
Even Bukhari weighs on on the hadith writers from Kufa/Iraq....
"Imam BukhariR was in disagreement with Imam Abu HanifaR on the issue of fluctuations in faith in a person's lifetime. Consequently, he never considered the great Imam very honorably. Not only that, as the great Imam Abu Hanifa had his roots in Kufa, thenceforth all the citizens of Kufa were not considered to be trustworthy and incapable of transmitting the hadith. As Kufa was in Iraq, so all Iraqis were chips of the same block and (Imam Bukhari) he reached the decision that 99 out of 100 Iraqi hadiths ought to be counted as ambiguous."
*******************************************************
Lets try this again.....
Northern Arab tribes of Iraq, Syria, and the Persian Gulf are called Arab al-Musta’ribah
   The Southern Arab Al-Muta’arribah who had mixed with the original true Arabs called Arab al-‘Aribah or the Arab al-Baa’idah (the lost Arabs) who lived in remote Arabia Felix (Yemen) , Somalia, Ethiopia, the Tigre of Eritrea and Nubia
Last edited on Saturday April 21st, 2007 00:00 by MuslimTruthRevealed
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