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Apedemak
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Posted: Friday March 30th, 2007 13:49 |
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Understanding first off that its a recognised religion and is widely practiced in the Carribean, South America and the Southern states of America.
What do you think about it?
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Sblizzy
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Posted: Wednesday April 4th, 2007 11:14 |
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| It has its roots from Africa. I believe its the practice of whats called Yoruba or Santeria.
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girlfromthenc
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Posted: Wednesday April 4th, 2007 18:40 |
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Apedemak wrote:
Understanding first off that its a recognised religion and is widely practiced in the Carribean, South America and the Southern states of America.
What do you think about it?
Surely since you've thought enough about Voodoo to start a whole new post about it, that you won't mind providing a link or some sort of evidence/proof about voodoo being WIDELY practiced in the Southern States of America. I live in the South, in the country part of the South in fact, and have never seen any evidence of Voodoo being widely practiced as you say.
PLEASE clue me in.
All churching going people (Black and White) I've encountered believe voodoo is anti-christian or sacreligion! Heck the Southern part of the US has historically been referred to as "the Bible belt" because of its strong belief in Christian values.
I think I've met maybe a handful of Catholics living in the South, a handful of muslims- mostly Arabs and African immigrants, 3 mormons, about 5 jehovah's witness and NO voodoo worshippers!
I seriously challenge you to go to anybodys house (anybody at all) in the South and ask them about voodoo. They'll tell you you need JESUS and you even speaking of voodoo is proof that we're at the end of time and Judgement day is coming soon because of people like YOU believing in Voodoo instead of Jesus Christ as your savior.
Last edited on Wednesday April 4th, 2007 19:01 by girlfromthenc
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Incognito
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Posted: Wednesday April 4th, 2007 19:36 |
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Some opinions...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4588262.stm
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girlfromthenc
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Posted: Wednesday April 4th, 2007 19:41 |
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Unlike in the last post let me try to enlighten you about what I know of voodoo IN THE US.
First off like someone mentioned earlier, voodoo probably has direct roots to some form of religion in Africa...........
Africans brought to America during slavery time came from all over West and Central Africa....................
During the period of slavery, slave owners were FORCED to "mix" or "breed" different tribes with one another........................
Because of thousands of African tribes "Mixing" together these people's descendants were FORCED to learn ENGLISH as a standard form of communication (I don't think this "mixing" was encouraged anywhere else outside the US where slaves tended to come from 1 region in Africa anyway)..............
They were also were FORCED (at the least "encouraged) to convert to Christianity and accept the word of Jesus Christ.................
The only place in America that did not FORCE African intermixing was city of New Orleans and religious convertions, which most of the people were unlike most other places in the US, were from one African ethnic group which was Sengalese. New Orleans also had the largest FREE Black population in the US, which meant "free people" had at least some rights as to what religion/churches they wanted to participate in...........
This kind of FORCED assimilation was not limited to slaves and their descendants only. Europeans who happened to be Catholic were also "encouraged" (and not so gently) to become WASP. A good example of this is former president John F. Kennedy who most Southern Whites hated because he was Irish- CATHOLIC and they couldn't imagine having a "catholic" president.............
Descendants of Africans brought to America once freed never went back to speaking African tongues........................
Neither did they change their religion from Christianity to or back to Voodoo................
Voodoo TODAY, might still be practiced in places that had HUGE free black/African populations during slavery time because "freedom" would allow people to practice their own"African culture". However there was never such a place (again outside of New Orleans) in America. I've read that around 90% of all Blacks were in bondage/slavery in the US. Therefore they were not allowed to practiced all this Voodoo people are TRYING to claim is still present.............
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Apedemak
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Posted: Thursday April 5th, 2007 13:22 |
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PLEASE clue me in.
Its practiced under the guise of Christianity in both America and over here in the UK. The europeans beat, blugeoned and raped us into their christianity but we or certain nations simply attached various African gods and godesses to christian angels as they have the same function and carried on practicing as ''christians''. Its also popular in places like Mexico and other South American countries where you'd assume the people were devout christians but are simply veiling their real religion behind it to avoid suspision.
Your typical Black all hype and funk church (Pentacostal?) where people dance and sway until they're possesed by the holy ghost... Flapping on the floor like fish calling for Jesus?
Voodoo.
Its exactly the same thing as is practiced all over the continent, south america and the carib drums beating calling on this and that god flapping on the floor like a fish etc etc but Christianised.
The only diffrence is that the Christians think they're diffrent.
Takes more than a few whip lashings, lynchings and torture to break a peoples religious beliefs. The Bantu/Zulu for example are selfless in that they belive that they are their ancestors, that their ancestors speak through them at any given time. Can't beat a 5000+ practice out of a people that belive in something as strong as that.
The South American Capueira comes from the same place Breakdancing did and is an African martial art. This is one of my theories but I swear it relates to Yoga, diffrent positions and all that.
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Sblizzy
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Posted: Thursday April 5th, 2007 14:06 |
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I thought all of religion came from the blackman. I believe that europeans learned religion from us. So how can it be that we of African descent get forced something that we taught the world to begin with? I'm part of what you call Pentecost where you see people dancing and praising God for those who dont understand how the Holy Spirit gets into people. Some people dance, some people scream, some people just let the tears come out thanking God for simple things as sight,and breath and the ability to walk and talk and to know that a mighty God is there any time we need Him. But that's not all to it. Gods word is taught everytime we step in Gods house. We dont look at our belief as simply a religeon. We look at it as a way of life because youre supposed to live it each and everyday. And thats living Holy and separated from the world. This doesnt mean to live in a cave. It just means to try to live a righteous life to the best of your ability. I dont think I'm better than anyone. I only try and do Gods will and thats it. For people that are here to soley to bash religeon and offend my faith that's between you and your God. I didnt mean to digress but this has nothing to do with voodoo. If thats the case anyone can look at another faith who doesnt have the same faith as theirs and call it demonic!!!
Last edited on Thursday April 5th, 2007 14:28 by Sblizzy
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Sblizzy
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Posted: Thursday April 5th, 2007 14:21 |
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Apedemak wrote: PLEASE clue me in.
Its practiced under the guise of Christianity in both America and over here in the UK. The europeans beat, blugeoned and raped us into their christianity but we or certain nations simply attached various African gods and godesses to christian angels as they have the same function and carried on practicing as ''christians''. Its also popular in places like Mexico and other South American countries where you'd assume the people were devout christians but are simply veiling their real religion behind it to avoid suspision.
Your typical Black all hype and funk church (Pentacostal?) where people dance and sway until they're possesed by the holy ghost... Flapping on the floor like fish calling for Jesus?
Voodoo.
Its exactly the same thing as is practiced all over the continent, south america and the carib drums beating calling on this and that god flapping on the floor like a fish etc etc but Christianised.
The only diffrence is that the Christians think they're diffrent.
Takes more than a few whip lashings, lynchings and torture to break a peoples religious beliefs. The Bantu/Zulu for example are selfless in that they belive that they are their ancestors, that their ancestors speak through them at any given time. Can't beat a 5000+ practice out of a people that belive in something as strong as that.
The South American Capueira comes from the same place Breakdancing did and is an African martial art. This is one of my theories but I swear it relates to Yoga, diffrent positions and all that.
Out of curiosity what is your native language? No disrespect but I dont think you realize the true magnitude of what our ancestors been through as far as the horrendous torture and inhumane acts that our people have experienced from slavery. Because you wouldnt have made a statement regarding a few whippings and lynchings. These were your people too!!! I'm assuming your black and if so, those were your people too that were kidnapped and beaten and killed. As devided as we have been a black family, I think its time to get in touch and find out who our ancestors were. Who knows...we could be relatives. I often do think where in Africa did my people come from. And what language did they speak and what different resemblences that we have. Alot of people here in the US unfortunately dont think about the larger family tree. I guess that was the devils doing of confusing us as a people as he is doing to us today where a traditional family household is on its way to distinction.
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DtotheJ
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Posted: Thursday April 5th, 2007 15:02 |
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girlfromNC
What do you think "roots" "hoodoo""juju" mean when you hear Southerners speak of it?
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Apedemak
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Posted: Thursday April 5th, 2007 16:08 |
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....you wouldnt have made a statement regarding a few whippings and lynchings.
It was nothing, a minor 500 year blip on a peoples with a 10,000+ year history.
( )
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girlfromthenc
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Posted: Thursday April 5th, 2007 18:10 |
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Apedemak wrote: PLEASE clue me in.
Its practiced under the guise of Christianity in both America and over here in the UK. The europeans beat, blugeoned and raped us into their christianity but we or certain nations simply attached various African gods and godesses to christian angels as they have the same function and carried on practicing as ''christians''. Its also popular in places like Mexico and other South American countries where you'd assume the people were devout christians but are simply veiling their real religion behind it to avoid suspision.
Your typical Black all hype and funk church (Pentacostal?) where people dance and sway until they're possesed by the holy ghost... Flapping on the floor like fish calling for Jesus?
Voodoo.
Its exactly the same thing as is practiced all over the continent, south america and the carib drums beating calling on this and that god flapping on the floor like a fish etc etc but Christianised.
The only diffrence is that the Christians think they're diffrent.
Takes more than a few whip lashings, lynchings and torture to break a peoples religious beliefs. The Bantu/Zulu for example are selfless in that they belive that they are their ancestors, that their ancestors speak through them at any given time. Can't beat a 5000+ practice out of a people that belive in something as strong as that.
The South American Capueira comes from the same place Breakdancing did and is an African martial art. This is one of my theories but I swear it relates to Yoga, diffrent positions and all that.
I know that you are African and you want desperately to show some sort of CONNECTION to all the people with African blood all over the world, but right now you're trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip.
I think its a VERY FAR STRETCH to claim anyone who gets emotional during a religious service is "practicing voodoo in disguise". Paying tides for example is part of most Christian churches, however because Muslims also believe in this would not make me a "Muslim" person in disguise! Religious practice often overlap one another, however TRUE believers in any religion believe in THEIR ONE GOD.
Last edited on Thursday April 5th, 2007 18:37 by girlfromthenc
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girlfromthenc
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Posted: Thursday April 5th, 2007 18:28 |
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DtotheJ wrote: girlfromNC
What do you think "roots" "hoodoo""juju" mean when you hear Southerners speak of it?
lol.
I've heard of Southerns speaking of "Islam" and "buddah" but does that mean that most Southerns are "muslim"????
What kind of question is that?
We're talking about the comment apedemak made claiming Voodoo was widely practiced in the South, which it is NOT. 100 people practicing voodoo out of 30+ million does NOT COUNT as something being "widely practiced"
Everybody and their mother knows that African traditions lasted in Brazil (and even this is not the majority) because during slavery time in Brazil, Brazilian slaves were often freed upon their masters death. Or for example your homeland Haiti, because of the slave revolt that completely wipped out the French population in Haiti. However, what holds true in Haiti or Brazil does not necessarily hold true in the US. They are 3 seperate countries with 3 seperate histories.
I have roots all over the South. So I'm not speaking on something I saw on t.v. or read in some book like you and Apedemak are surely doing.
In fact, right after hurricane Katrina me and another AA lady were talking about how terrible the storm was and out of nowhere I remember her making a comment "well this is nothing but God's work paying these people back. You know alot of those people in Louisana practice voodoo".I wanted to tell her how ignorant she was, and that was just a sterotype sort of like Northerns would have of us and that all Southerns are dumb or stupid. Its the same thing really. But she was kind of an older lady so I didn't want to dispect her so I dropped the subject.
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DtotheJ
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Posted: Thursday April 5th, 2007 20:43 |
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girl from the nc
please do not lump me in with somebody else....
and take my comments at face value as an individual talking......I grew up in a northern American town that was about 95% first generation southern immigrant....mostly from Alabama, South Carolina..and Georgia...
I grew up since age 3 with and among Black people who were from rural areas down south....not too different from the rural background my parents had in Haiti. Trust me that nothing I'm saying is from a book or an article. And also trust me when I say that whatever assumption you're making based on my comments were misguided.....
Wile you are right, black people (here) are among the most Christian people you will ever meet...and that would probably go double for down south....
*You were wrong about Brazil and why the African traditions survived there....
Brazil, Haiti, and French speaking US possessions(louisiana)...were colonized by Catholic countries.....their brand of slavery was more conducive to Africans being able to hide and retain our culture(s)....and religions....Spanish were Catholic as well....and many of the cultural ties to Africa survived also...the saints in Catholic tradition were worshipped by the Africans in the eyes of the slavers....but we were hiding from them that were worshipping our own gods in polytheistic tradtions....
Protestant countries had policies and circumstances that made it harder for the African traditions to survive...
BUT..like you alluded to...US took over Louisisana territory....Those Africans who were under that system were absorbed into the United States.....
The elements of African religions that have been absorbed into African american christianity may not stand out but they are there....
Bonafide Christians who go to church every Sunday.....hold beleifs and traditions that would under any other name be called something else...which expalins why the style, patterns, etc of the black church in america are so different from white churches...even when the denomination is the same....
more to the point, roots, "interpreting dreams"", numerology for lack of a better word..hodoo, juju,and other stuff practiced by bonafide christians exists down south.....
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RLB
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Posted: Thursday April 5th, 2007 21:40 |
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Understanding first off that its a recognised religion and is widely practiced in the Carribean, South America and the Southern states of America.
What do you think about it?
It all depends of what you mean by 'think about it'.
I don't think african mysticism is well represented enough in the mainstream media and on the net. Everyone seems to be a christian or a muslim.
I have no problem with africans practicing voodoo if anything, I would rather more practice african mysticism it as religions/traditions that have been around for thousands of years could be lost in a few hundered years.
Voodoo was crucial in empowering and keeping the slaves motivated and focused.
I have noticed the bad press that voodoo gets. There seems to be a belief that anything black or created by black people could only be primitive and evil. Let's take the word 'witchdoctor' what/who do you think of when you hear that word? What is your understanding of the motives of such a person...is his motive good or bad.
Yet the same type of person in native american or aboriginal cuture is afforded more respect and called a sharman, wise man or mystic. What do you thing of when you her these words?
The first thing you do if you want to enslave a man, is enslave his mind and spirit the body will surely follow.
I am from a african carribean background, I don't remember ever hearing anything about voodoo being practised there, though I'm sure it must be. I think most african spiritual practces tend to be lumped in the obeah category. I have heard that word many a time. 'So and so it a obeah woman' This is always said by a christian who has no idea about the practise and is just following the usual ''If it ain't christian, it's evil'' line.
read up:-
http://scholar.library.miami.edu/slaves/Religion/religion.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obeah.
P.S I must say, I am impressed. I remeber looking for imformation on obeah not more that 5 months ago and there were only a couple sites. I just google obeah again and there's a hell of a lot more!
Keep em comimg!
Last edited on Thursday April 5th, 2007 21:49 by RLB
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DtotheJ
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Posted: Saturday April 7th, 2007 17:53 |
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same old blacknet....
say childish things and argue....threads last forever...
make informed posts.....and things abruptly come to an end....
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Apedemak
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Posted: Tuesday April 10th, 2007 13:17 |
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I know that you are African and you want desperately to show some sort of CONNECTION to all the people with African blood all over the world, but right now you're trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip.
I think its a VERY FAR STRETCH to claim anyone who gets emotional during a religious service is "practicing voodoo in disguise".
I'm African yes but I'm Jamaican if you get my point.
What I was talking about with the Christians is the Pentacostal spiritual practice of drumming and singing, the laying on of hands and talking in toungues that is distinctly African in practice. Its not european.
On the continent they beat drums and dance until they become possesed by the spirit or ancestor they are trying to invoke and hear from. Some would say that the dieties are aspects of ourselves and are being brought out through the loosing of ones awareness of self, some would say that they are loosing themselves in the music and the spirit chooses who to posses... its mostly women that are good at becoming possesed which is why Africa was/is a Matriarchial society where women are highly valued as they can communicate with the ancestors and spirit world much easier than us men. Where in the west people hear the word ''possesed'' and feel the urge to run a mile in other cultures throughout the world its a good thing, an honour to bring news to the community in what ever form be it good or bad.
Think its Santieria thats crossed with Christianity its not visible in most places but its still in practice. Voodoo/Vodun is Taboo in most places which is why I wanted to hear peoples opinion on it in general, you won't hear too many people talking about it but it IS practiced in South America and is probably more popular than you think. Just as people there are ultra Christian the more people are inclined to hide their practice.
Let's take the word 'witchdoctor' what/who do you think of when you hear that word?
Exactly, anything to demean us in some way trying to make themselves feel morally superior. Thing is those ''witchdoctors'' and Shamans are the custodians of our history on the continent. They hide their knowledge from outsiders and keep passing it down from generation to generation to preserve it. A few of them have written books to tell their story like the Ameri-Indians worried that it might be lost if they don't survive. Some of it is tough to belive, but theres stories like, ''The Lost Immortal'' and others about Wolly Mammoths and Sabre tooth tigers dating back thousands of years.
say childish things and argue....threads last forever...
make informed posts.....and things abruptly come to an end....
Hmmmm.... sometimes I think people don't want to acknowledge themselves or take things seriously, too much for them.
Welcome back btw. Might be off for a while myself.
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DtotheJ
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Posted: Thursday April 12th, 2007 22:00 |
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The flipside is that.....
at least in Haiti....vodun has become corrupted from what I think are it's roots.....as most religon does.
Native born Haitian of today sees only the negative aspects of it as practiced by it's members.."the threats...." etc.
I think the negative association that Haitian non practioners of vodun have is caused by direct contact and living with practioners...not just with europeans views or missionaries. that's a simplified view.
i don't know enough about pure vodun to be able to speak on the full spectrum of what i tmeans.....but I've definitley seen, read, and heard about the violent, and threatening(to others) aspect of voodoo....
keeping 100% real.....
I can't speak about current practice of santeira, obeah,etc....but I think i'm qualified to speak about this.
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girlfromthenc
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Posted: Monday April 16th, 2007 18:06 |
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DtotheJ wrote: same old blacknet....
say childish things and argue....threads last forever...
make informed posts.....and things abruptly come to an end....
To all...
Not trying to be rude but this is what I'm talking about! Things have come to abrupt end because NOBODY ON THIS THREAD OBVIOUSLY KNOWS ****ANYTHING*** ABOUT VOODOO DESPITE SOME ON THE THREAD CLAIMING IT WAS SOOOOOOOOOOO WIDESPREAD.
If it was that widespread shouldn't PEOPLE taken from different countries such as Haiti, England, America and the African continent know something?????????????????
"i don't know enough about pure vodun to be able to speak on the full spectrum of what i tmeans.....but I've definitley seen, read, and heard about the violent, and threatening(to others) aspect of voodoo....
keeping 100% real.....
I can't speak about current practice of santeira, obeah,etc....but I think i'm qualified to speak about this."
The best anyone's been able to contribute to the thread are internet links & their own opinion about how people who practice voodoo are protrayed in a negative light in their country!If we want to create an interesting thread we need to find someone who either KNOWS SOMETHING about voodoo or actually PRACTICES IT!
Last edited on Monday April 16th, 2007 18:10 by girlfromthenc
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RLB
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Posted: Sunday April 22nd, 2007 11:05 |
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girlfromthenc
If we want to create an interesting thread we need to find someone who either KNOWS SOMETHING about voodoo or actually PRACTICES IT!
I don't thing that there will be many people when will readily admit to practicing voodoo or anything similar. I still has too much or a taboo devil worshipping stigma attatched to it.
Most people in here would of been brought up christian, so there is still 'those' thought with reguards to what is considered evil.
The best that we will be able to do, is continue to discuss our thoughts the feelings on how relivant and widespread it may or may not be.
One of the problems with voodoo is that it does'nt seem to have much of a moral code within the system, though I sure one could be found and expaned upon and still be considered homologous.
I mean, If Hobbard can up with Scientology, I don't see why voodoo and the like can't be given a little make over for the new millenium.
I might actually take a shot at this myself, and do a little reasearch, could be an intresting exercise!
Last edited on Sunday April 22nd, 2007 11:05 by RLB
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Posted: Saturday May 5th, 2007 15:23 |
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Apedemak wrote:
Understanding first off that its a recognised religion and is widely practiced in the Carribean, South America and the Southern states of America.
What do you think about it?
Hey Apedemak,
Good question. The main problem with voodoo is not voodoo itself, but the negative connotations that have been attached to it. As always there is a reason to pass it off as unreal and evil but that's probably the biggest red herring. I'm not saying people don't use it to do disagreeable things but the whole point is maintaining the connection with our ancestors (spiritually) and nature (physically).
Religion today is out of place with what we as Nubians naturally are inclined to. Many would say they believe that there is a Most High but would leave it at that. Not because they don't want to practise as everyone else does but they have their own connection.
One thing about some religions is that they don't always make the point to stress the spiritual ability in yourself. It's always about mainly putting your trust in someone else to the point that you do not realize the potential you have because of that connection.
How we live physically and maintain our health also plays a big part in this voodoo. Just to eat well and use certain foods, minerals, vitamins, herbs and spices can change the way you think, feel and act. Taking time to stop and meditate for a while can increase your voodoo powers too lol. I shouldn't laugh but because we do not give it this title, we don't see it that way.
Prayer I feel is also important if only just to give thanks from time to time for the good things in life. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I'd say many of us practise voodoo in simply making that communication with our ancestors. Especially in these days and times. I practise voodoo everyday!
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"If you have no confidence in self, you are twice defeated in the race of life. With confidence you have won even before you have started."
Marcus Mosiah Garvey
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