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Toloane
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Posted: Monday September 12th, 2005 14:53 |
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ever wondered why Arabs are so resilient with their movements for freedom? in Isreal where oppression is a daily and very intense issue, Arab leadership against the occupation is unstoppable, requiring constant effort from the Jews, so much so that they end up looking really brutal.
i have posted and read many posts on Afrikan bulletin boards and the general feeling of our people on this issue is that, comparably, Afrikans wouldn't fare as well as Arabs under the same conditions. some people go further to conclude that we have had this level of resistance bred out of us. by killing our most unyielding, militant types, the west has ensured that a very few of such people's genes are passed along, ensuring the remaining Blaks are somewhat docile.
i do not think that the west has ever had such power over us. the fact our movements are compromized, hijacked or die when they kill a few key persons within the organization has nothing to do with breeding, with genes, but all to do with the fragile premise of selection of our leaders. fact is our leaders have to go through thick and thin to get prominent. there is no simple school where they are taught by our own people, rather than having to go through a western education system, have PHD's to show for their capacities. they stand up against the man and get attacked for it, etc. they do all manner of activities, some that are life threatening, most unconducive to the role they want to perform, before they are recognized by our people as leaders. in all of this, a lot of potential leadership is lost, imprisoned, killed, get on drugs, because the pressure out there is intense.
what's worse is when a leader makes it to the forefront, we honestly have no way of knowing whether he is really standing for us; whether he's in our enemy's camp, a puppet or not. we do not have as basic a requirement as an own school that trains our leadership, ensuringn that those who lead us are our creations, and they serve our interests wherever we may be. we do not have a faith/cult to which membership is essential for such roles. many of us have become so western on this issue we have outdone the westerners themselves who remain very traditional where seletionn of their leadership is concerned. fact is we have bought into the lie of the way leaders are chosen, because nobody choses their leaders like we do.
Arabs, on the other hand, are not encumbered by these limitations. they are able to maintain their movements, even when the leaders are repeatedly assassinated, for a simple reason: religion, in this case Islam. through this religion they educate their future leaders, who, apart from providing leadership also serve as role models and recruiting points for new devout... because they do get pampered, right? Arabs are able to breed/nurture their own leadership, change them at will, thanks to the one religion they all follow.
the faith is responsible for the cohesion that Arabs enjoy. hear us crying for unity for ages. all they need to do is be devout, and follow the rules set down in their holy book, and unity will be guaranteed. the book then regulates their movements, organizing their societies in such a way that no segment is left unregimented. they will not suffer the youth problems we have because their youth are as regimented by the religion as are the udults. leaders flow from the masses at every level, leaving no age group leaderless. there will always be that kid, that teenager, to whom all are responsible. people require only a fundamental understanding of the teachings in the book as qualification for such leadership at all levels. educated people, people with PHD's and what-not, accept this leadership without question, listen to the sermons and genuflect when required. kill an imam today and there will be another succeeding him tomorrow to take over the movement because the own systemm is breeding them nonstop. the rest is left up to the office to make the man.
try to beat that, Blakman caught up in exploitation. i mean everytime a leader comes along he has to formulate commandments by which members of his new organization fighting against black oppression have to live and die. these guys have it all written down in the book, so they hit the ground running all the time. makes you realize why, like the Nazis before them, the neo-cons are going after Islam. it is an impediment to the dream of a New World Order.
this is rather simlistic, of course, but then the basics are here.
colonization and subjugation are processes that require the breakdown of social organization of the conquered, otherwise the war is not over. this is what happened to us. European agression, led by their faith (christianity), equally nationalistic as Islam, took over our lives, destroyed our traditional method of organization, vilified the religions we followed that provided for a cohesive spirit among our people, made us resilient to foreign aggression. they destroyed this and replaced it with their religion; great trick that has the effect of brainwashing the victims enough not to realize praying to the same God as those bent on dehumanizing us is aiding in our own colonization.
think about it: christianity, like islam, are civilizations that are self serving. they are meant to facilitate organization of the group/tribe/nation, to provide them with unity, leadership. christianity was the reigning religion when Europeans came ravaging our continent, no? christianity is traditionally a religion that is against our interests as such. we would be foolish to see it as a neutral force in this endeavour since most who slaughtered our people, colonized and enslaved them, burnt down our villages - did it in the name of their God. remember, it is documented that this same religion was used to justify attrocities against our kind. it must follow logically from this kthat the religion had been fine tuned to make Europeans more effficient at downpressing, and here you go Black man, learning those very teachings, joining those cults and getting elected as leader in the very organizations that gave leadership during the destruction of your culture.
what i am trying to get accross here is there is no other way out of our present fix except to find a faith that does all that we want to do for our selves. we are leaving these things to fate too long, and see what happens to us the world over, from NO to Rwanda. we require an own religion if we are ever going to increase our political clout wherever we live, if we are going to be a force in any society that others reckon with, respect, meet as equals, and not some kind of outcasts/burdens; if we are ever going to see a change to our present wrechid state, wherever we are on this planet.
the question then is: what religion? there are all kinds of religions our people are following right now, but they do not have as much of a following to throw them to the forefront and expect results that will be worthwhile. i propose we join the Nation of Islam. i know this contradicts what i said in this post, since, following that logic, we are put in a weaker positoin to Arab interests. ultimately we may end up giving it all away to them, but then they are not about to start being aggressive to us any time soon. we should join this religion en-masse, incorporate it into our societies, make it our way of life, allow it to regiment our societies, give leadreship to our kids, protect our women, and as such protect our collective whole from perpetual corporate exploitation and the misery that comes with this.
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Mezmerized
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Posted: Monday September 12th, 2005 16:38 |
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Sorry Toloane......your argument though well formated, is too simplistic.
Why is it that we seem to find example of togetherness based on two principles only?  eg: Christianity or Islam...
The Chinese have managed a togetherness without the need for religion......what the Africans needs and have always needed but are too scared to fight for, is a Revolution(The French, The Chinese revolutions etc).....what many of us always forget is, all societies from the west to Asia, had to go through some kind of social revolution before attaining the peace and unity that they enjoy today.
Our problem the world over is the "fear" factor and lack of direction among-st our people.......not religion unity per se.
Even the Muslim societies that you are talking about are not at peace in its complete form.....women are still being oppressed, and we all know that NO society can move forward towards an ideal democratic process if women's rights is suffocated out of that society.....a good example is our own motherland.
As Thomas Sankara said, no change can happen without some degree of madness, therefore, what black people needs is an ideology rather than another simplistic way of religion. This never serves a purpose of advancement, which is what Africans NEEDS.....religion for the majority of time, is used by a selected few males to exercise control.....therefore if this route is taken, you are bound to alienate the African women who constitute the majority anyways.......what good is that gone bring?
Last edited on Monday September 12th, 2005 16:40 by Mezmerized
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MyThoughts
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Posted: Monday September 12th, 2005 17:15 |
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Not advocating that this is the course of action BUT it is not so far fetched...ALL religion constitutes is forming a basis to ideals and morals in its IDEAL form...Not only does it do that but it brings a community together via prayer and worship HENCE it directs positive energy into something...which to them is GOD
Ok now I do not follow any established religion or in anyway like the idea that is up to the individual what spiritual path they wish to take or finding their truth...anyway I digress.
There are and have been many movements that black people could have followed but being such a diverse group it hasn't happen that way. Not only is forming a religion or jumping on one that already exists not practical but it has been tried.
I can only suggest individual nations having organisation that are in someway interlinked...but having their OWN idealogies and political stance as this will differ between blacks from nation to nation. When the cause is blacks worldwide each individual is able to offer help and resources at any given time.
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Toloane
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Posted: Monday September 12th, 2005 22:27 |
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Mezmerized you wrote: The Chinese have managed a togetherness without the need for religion......what the Africans needs and have always needed but are too scared to fight for, is a Revolution(The French, The Chinese revolutions etc).....
the Chinese never got completely subjugated, but we did.
what the chinese had was both a social and cultural revolution. the former lasts longer than the latter. kicking out the system is easy when it requires taking the proponents out through brute force, but the cultural revolution, equal to reseting and configuring the system for optimal, productive and constructive continuation, is harder, and the Chinese are still going through this today.
what you do not realize in the moment is that the Chinese revolution, or even the Russian, are the result of people studying the system, understanding it, then reacting to it asppropriately. this is to say you cannot simply blindly follow suit, apply methods to any situation thinking it will work. every solution is/has to be tailor made for the situation. our problem now is cohesion, and i do not care how many types or colours of blaks there are. to me, and the next cracker, we are blak when you can recognize the blakness in the being.
we need to tailor suit the method to the circumstances. we are all over the place, all over the world, and anywhere you go we are downpressed. step by step you see the conscious among us need to start the rest off on some religion, some form of commandments by which our people live and die, and they are not contained anywhere except through the religions that exist. there has to be a conscious drive to recruit our people to this religion by making them see the results.
do not forget the way major religions started out as one but diversified; christians have protestants, Jehova's witnesses, etc. this is simply suiting the religion to circumstances and needs, and it can be done with us as well. we are in a situation where we need to stoop to the level that religion becomes crucial, otherwise it doesn't need to be, like with the Chinese, etc.
you go on to say: Our problem the world over is the "fear" factor and lack of direction among-st our people.......not religion unity per se.
the only reason we are so distabilized is because of subjugation. this ustate is being maintained as we speak. it is no accident we got to this state. we are here now so how do we lift ourselves out of this abys? the solution has to be tailor made, and religion happens to be necesary.
Even the Muslim societies that you are talking about are not at peace in its complete form.....women are still being oppressed...
our women were not oppressed in our culture, unless you want to point at circumcision et al. their state today depends on this culture we inherited from our colonizers. Islam doesn't have to make things worse. as i said, if you know how religions in the west have diversified, you will see just how simple it is to chcange the tenets that bring about woman oppression. it can all be done, but then we have to accept the method (and negative effects) as an issue of the end justifies the means.
As Thomas Sankara said, no change can happen without some degree of madness, therefore, what black people needs is an ideology rather than another simplistic way of religion. This never serves a purpose of advancement, which is what Africans NEEDS.....religion for the majority of time, is used by a selected few males to exercise control.....therefore if this route is taken, you are bound to alienate the African women who constitute the majority anyways.......what good is that gone bring?
i haven't heard his name mentioned for a while. great African he is. great point too. however, i believe you should place it among those many things we have to look out for. remember... we need to keep our history at heart all the time, the matrilineal heritage where women had so much powers/rights? what's the point of adopting another system where they are enslaved? that's retrogression.
you make some good points MyThoughts, but when you say this:
There are and have been many movements that black people could have followed but being such a diverse group it hasn't happen that way. Not only is forming a religion or jumping on one that already exists not practical but it has been tried.
i think there has not been a complete commitment in this direction by blak people. we have not been told nor has anyone given such rewards to the leadership that all of our people feel like following. more needs to be done than has been in the past.
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Omaar
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Posted: Monday September 12th, 2005 22:31 |
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I definately believe we need to establish a set of principles and values that we're willing to rally around and die for as a people.
Right now we have too much anarchy and instability in the community.
Everybody is working on thier own schedule and making up their own morality and rules for engagement.
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umbrarchist
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Posted: Monday September 12th, 2005 22:44 |
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Here is a place to start Toloane.
| The return of the long lost Book of Enoch to the modern western world is credited to the famous explorer James Bruce, who in 1773 returned from six years in Abyssinia with three Ethiopic copies of the lost book. |
http://www.blackchat.co.uk/theblackforum/forum26/16797.html
The Chinese have a tradition of Confucianism and ancestor worship.
Since so many diasporan Blacks have a Christian influence from the palefaces trying to overcome that would be a hard row to hoe. BUT The Ethiopian Christians were cut off from the influence of the Catholic Church for centuries. The Ethiopians didn't go thru the reformation. When the Catholics returned the Ethiopians kicked them out in 1633. The European Christians are heretics who deviated from the path of Christ. European Christianity has been corrupted by mixing European paganism with the ideas of Christ at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church.
Going to church on Sunday comes from Roman paganism. It isn't anywhere in the Bible.
Look to Ethiopia for the TRUTH.
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Toloane
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Posted: Monday September 12th, 2005 22:53 |
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correct Omaar.
on a different note... once i was locked down... for nothing if you disregard my literary exploits, and i was looking at my fellow Blak inmates and it occured to me that they were more than the system was making them out to be. here were men who had the minds and potentials to lead organizations like Enron (LOL), lead institutions that uplift a whole people, but the system had made them little... so all they could do was peddle dope at the corner, rap, etc.
we have a man who speaks the truth at a time that Blaks need it in Kanye, and in some circles he is considered a leader, but then he is a mere rapper. how many people are really going to take him seriously? just imagine we had a religion to hwich he had to belong to be taken seriously, and this same person was the equivilant of an Imam. his words would carry much more meaning, and i mean universal.
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judge dredd
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Posted: Monday September 12th, 2005 23:28 |
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@Toloane: Then why are countries like Saudi Arabia so dependent on western skill and imports in order to run their various industries? Why hasn't their religon helped them to develope their own technologies?
At least when the Europeans came to Africa, they came with a plan of action based on world domination. Armed with the necessary superior technology, religous, racial supremacy brainwashing techniques and strategies. They came with a gun in one hand and a bible in the other.
What has the Arab world got to show for itself over the past five hundred years or so? What serious strategies have they developed? what have they built, what have thy created, Absolutely f**k all.
For example, they came to certain parts of Africa with the Koran in hand, a spot of slave trading, race superiority and violence in the other and thats about it really.
The Arab world is as backward now as it has always been. That is why alot of their citizens want to escape the madness within their own midst.
The western world could have kicked their arse a long, long time ago if they really wanted too.
And their is nothing in this world that could have stopped them from doing that then and there is nothing in this world that could stop them from doing that now.
And do you think their religon would have been able to save them? I seriously doubt it!
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Omaar
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Posted: Monday September 12th, 2005 23:45 |
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Toloane
correct Omaar.
on a different note... once i was locked down... for nothing if you disregard my literary exploits, and i was looking at my fellow Blak inmates and it occured to me that they were more than the system was making them out to be. here were men who had the minds and potentials to lead organizations like Enron (LOL), lead institutions that uplift a whole people, but the system had made them little... so all they could do was peddle dope at the corner, rap, etc.
we have a man who speaks the truth at a time that Blaks need it in Kanye, and in some circles he is considered a leader, but then he is a mere rapper. how many people are really going to take him seriously? just imagine we had a religion to hwich he had to belong to be taken seriously, and this same person was the equivilant of an Imam. his words would carry much more meaning, and i mean universal.
So you think we need somebody like a Sheik or Mullah who could declare divine judgements and issue fatwas that would immediately rally thousands of black men to action.
....send chills down the spine of Western powers.
In order to have this, you have to have a population of Black men who don't fear death.
Too many of us are so busy trying to have sex and get drunk/high we are too preoccupied with trying to enjoy life to die for a belief.
It's unfortunate because we're dying more than anybody.
Believe it or not, this can be done but Black leaders are gonna have to be willing to do what it takes and enforce the rules for atleast a generation or 2 to produce that type of unbending loyalty to "the cause".
In order for Chinese to shake off those old superstitous, backwards, and self-destructive ways that left them vulnerable to being exploited by Whites, it took them an entire revolution in the 40s in which nearly a quarter of the population had to be "purged" and killed in order for the society to be reformed.
Now it's one of the greatest superpowers the world has ever known.
Even though they had to "prune" nearly one out of every 4 Chinese that were holding the others back....not only did nature bless them with a population explosion, but a technological one as well.
Are we willing to do what it takes and TAKE control over our people?
How many Black men are ready to die for self-independance and honor?
A lot of us wouldn't make it through the fire.
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Toloane
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Posted: Tuesday September 13th, 2005 16:53 |
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let me repeat the point i made earlier concerning "tailor suiting a solution to a situation": when you are fighting a system, espepcially a homegrown one where the leaders are the oppressors, revolution works. but when you have become completely subjugated, when your leaders are not yours to chose, with all that comes with this (mental slavery, loss of culture, self-hate, negative self-control, etc), you cannot go for revolution for the simple reason you are not being ruled by a homegrown system run by homegrown leaders, but by another people. this is the case with Palestinians or Iraqis, and it is more or less the case in many African republics. revolution for the former groups is out of the question since all it will do is make internal change without affecting the outer power balance. besides, the revolution has to be planned and executed while the colonizer is watching, an impossible thing considering the number of people involved.
religion on the other hand strengthens a people against both the oppressor and his puppets, given the religion is universal in the land. it acts as a shield in this vulnerable position of subjugated and protects a people's soul when they are so exposed to danger. it makes indirect as well as direct rule that much harder since the society's proposed leaders will always flow from their own ranks and have the people's best interests at heart. they will create a situation where a people's system exists side by side with the colonizer's imposed system, two systems within one society. it is very difficult to impose a new, oppressive system on a people who already have a viable, vibrant system, albeit a religious system.
furthermore, it works in time of freedom as well as in more exigent times.
@judge dredd: what does religion have to do with technologicsal advancement? while religion allows a group to build together, to think as one, there is no proof it is directly responsible for technological advance. what i sense in your approach is the instilled mentality human development is the sum total of western development to date. what you need to know is the western movement out of darkness isn't representative of humankind's movement from primitivity to civilization, and religion in the form of christianity didn't always play a part in this, no? the west got acquainted with religion very recently through the Romans. their progress from the caves to what they are today is much more recent and not original. this is to say they didn't originate any of the ideas, beliefs, etc. required for their uplift out of the doldrums. they were colonized by more advanced people, then later they simply assembled from what those people left behind, and other sources around the globe.
you will be surprised to know that even people like Isaac Newton depended heavily upon Egyptian scripts for their so called inventions and discoveries. i bet you believe westerners were the first to know the world was not flat...
the plan of action Europeans came with to Africa was not theirs, but a tested and written down system of downpression the Romans had left behind. just check up on this if you do not believe me. there is nothing original nor christianity in this, neither is there anything to be proud of about the application of such tactics. is there anything grand about wiping out an entire race of Indians in the Americas? what about the poverty, miseries and tragedies in Africa? the Romans of whom the Europeans consider their successors, or even the moors before them, tended to enrich the cultures they came in contact with. this is their signature. more developed tribes always tend to improve the people they come in contact with, no? yet the west leaves death, burning villages, moral decline, cultural destruction, prolonged wars, and all manner of vices to whatever they touch. that's their "Dick was here" signature. there are no gains to speak of. what was the gain for the Indians of contact with the much more advanced Europeans?
understand, higher civilizations have been and will continue to be, irrespective of whether westerners manage to self-servingly convince the whole world they are God's gift to humankind. human genius is not dependent on race, but on humans, or lets say their level of development universal to all. this is where it all comes from... that's why you notice it doesn't always come from one source. one time your heros could be living in caves, and the next they are smoking up the earth and getting everybody in chains.
@Omarr: many blalck intellectuals of the past have warned the blalck group's prolonged exposure to destructive forces is making the prospect Africa will go down the China path of bloody revolution more likely, the depth of the purging increasing as we go along. i think we are already inevitably headed that way. the event may be preciitated by some blacks who have had enough, or the economic decline of the west that will lift the repressive veil of control they have on our communities enabling this ball to roll of its own accord.
Last edited on Tuesday September 13th, 2005 17:08 by Toloane
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Omaar
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Posted: Tuesday September 13th, 2005 19:19 |
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Toloane
@Omarr: many blalck intellectuals of the past have warned the blalck group's prolonged exposure to destructive forces is making the prospect Africa will go down the China path of bloody revolution more likely, the depth of the purging increasing as we go along. i think we are already inevitably headed that way. the event may be preciitated by some blacks who have had enough, or the economic decline of the west that will lift the repressive veil of control they have on our communities enabling this ball to roll of its own accord.
Do you know the difference between purging and self-destruction?
Clear objectives.
I would like to think that there is a lot of purging going on around Africa, but much of it looks like self-destruction to me with no clear universal objective.
Not that I agree with him, I think he was not only mad but wicked to the core....but what Hitler did in Europe was a form of purging because he and his group organized and targeted certain undesirable segments of the society while uniting the majority of the citizens.
What's going on in most African countries seems to be reckless disorganized killing and oppression based on family, race, and class much of which is totally unconnected to eachother more so than an organized cleansing of the continent.
The closest things that come to what I consider purging is what the "Arabs" are doing to the other Blacks of Sudan (which I don't approve of) and what Mugabe was doing to whites in Zimbabwe as far as purging the land of their influence.
But that's why your suggestion that we have a religion or system of established beliefs is so important because it would organize us and give us clear objective in which to focus our energies on so we won't waste sweat and bullets killing the wrong people.
If we don't quickly get our priorities together, we're liable to self-destruct before the revolution even gets off.
The first step in developing this "religion" is establishing an IDENTITY for ourselves.
Who are we?
Are we Black, African, Negro....are all Africans included in this group or just Black Africans who acknowledge themselves as Black.
Are all diasporans (even those of mixed heritage) included in this universal religion, or just those of substancial blackness?
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Toloane
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Posted: Tuesday September 13th, 2005 23:59 |
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i know the difference between healthy purging and self-destruction.
what i am talkingn about in the quoted text is the aftermath of a successful revolution on the continent, not the present. i have read a lot of Africans point out there are a lot of pressures building on the continent as a result of external manipulations that will erupt in such purges when the time comes to clean house, and it will not be pretty.
did you know that the reason hundreds of thousands of people were murdered in Rwanda is because they were regarded as lousy traitors who had sold their brothers down the river? these kinds of disputes exist all over the continent. tribes watch as other tribes keep sellingout to foreigners, repressed and in a state of disempowerment. the pressuers are only kept from exploding over into outright genocide throughout the continent by a state system designed for such repression.
lthese regimes and tribes will eventually fall. it is known they are supported by foreign funding, and now it is becoming clear the west's economic might will not last long. once these thugs cannot be maintained in poewr other tribes will break free and seek retribution.
i just pray for Africans that they will have leadership wise enough to control what will otherwise become a bloodbath. the writing is already on the wall. you feel it when you talk to Africans from almost every country.
The first step in developing this "religion" is establishing an IDENTITY for ourselves.
Who are we?
Are we Black, African, Negro....are all Africans included in this group or just Black Africans who acknowledge themselves as Black.
Are all diasporans (even those of mixed heritage) included in this universal religion, or just those of substancial blackness?
i believe this part is pretty much taken care of in the present. i also make it plain in my posts that Afrikans wherever they are are in more or less the same predicament and in need of the protection that only a religion can provide. Pan-africanism is about the wide spectrum of types who fall under the umbrella Afrikan. the reasons for thinking this broadly are obvious.
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Politically active, or planning on joining a radical organization? You may need to know about covert warfare:
http://www.geocities.com/chibinda/
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