|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
| Moderated by: Saida.M, safetyblitz, Raven, Miss Brighter Days, LadyDay, Kunjufu, Kibibi, Happiness, Dillinger, Breadfruit, Backatya |
|
|
| Author | |
|---|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: |    |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 02:12 |
|
| But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. Deuteronomy 18:20
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 02:45 |
|
What do YOU think of the previous two verses?
(Deuteronomy 18:18-19) I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
"A PROPHET... LIKE UNTO THEE?"
In the FIRST place Jesus is NOT like Moses, because, according to You - 'JESUS IS A GOD', but Moses is not God. Is this true?" If Yes: Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses!
SECONDLY, according to You - 'JESUS DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD', but Moses did not have to die for the sins of the world. Is this true?" If "Yes.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses!
THIRDLY, according to You - 'JESUS WENT TO HELL FOR THREE DAYS', but Moses did not have to go there. Is this true?" If: "Y-e-s.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses!
Fouthly, Moses had a father and a mother. Muhummed also had a father and a mother. But Jesus had only a mother, and no human father. Is this true?
Fithly, Moses and Muhummed were born in the normal, natural course, i.e. the physical association of man and woman; but Jesus was created by a special miracle. Jesus is therefore not like Moses, Is this true?
Moses and Muhummed married and begat children, but Jesus remained a bachelor all his life. Is this true?": "Yes.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses.
Moses and Muhummed were accepted as prophets by their people in their very lifetime. No doubt the Jews gave endless trouble to Moses and they murmured in the wilderness, but as a nation, they acknowledged that Moses was a Messenger of God sent to them. And even today, after two thousand years, his people- the Jews, as a whole, have rejected him. Is this true?": "Yes.": THEREFORE JESUS IS NOT LIKE MOSES, BUT MUHUMMED IS LIKE MOSES.
Both Moses and Muhummed died natural deaths, but according to Christianity, Jesus was violently killed on the cross. Is this true?" "Yes.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses.
Moses and Muhummed both lie buried in earth, but according to you, Jesus in heaven. Is this true?" Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses
"I WILL RAISE THEM UP A PROPHET FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN LIKE UNTO THEE......."
The emphasis is on the words- "From among their brethren." Moses and his people, the Jews, are here addressed as a racial entity, and as such their 'brethren' would undoubtedly be the Arabs. You see, the Holy Bible speaks of Abraham as the "Friend of God". Abraham had two wives - Sarah and Hagar. Hagar bore Abraham a son - HIS FIRST-BORN- '......And Abraham1 called HIS SON'S name, which Hagar bare Ishmael.' (Genesis 16:15). 'And Abraham took Ishmael HIS SON......" (Genesis 17:23). 'And Ishmael HIS SON was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.'(Genesis 17:25). Up to the age of THIRTEEN Ishmael was the ONLY son and seed of Abraham, when the covenant was ratified between God and Abraham. God grants Abraham another son through Sarah, named Isaac, who was very much the junior to his brother Ishmael.
If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham, then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. The children of Isaac are the Jews and the Children of Ishmael are the Arabs - so they are BRETHREN to one another. The Bible affirms, 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) SHALL DWELL IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.' (Genesis 16:12). 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) DIED IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN. (Genesis 25:18). The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelites. In like manner Muhummed is from among the brethren of the Israelites because he was a descendant of Ishmael the son of Abraham. This exactly as the prophecy has it- 'FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN'.(Deut.18:18). There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among themselves', but from among their brethren. MUHUMMED THEREFORE WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN!
"MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME"
Furthermore, in the verse 19 of Deuteronomy chapter 18, we have a further fulfilment of the prophecy in Muhummed! Note the words-'.....MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME," In whose name is Muhummed speaking?" I open Yusuf Ali's translation of the Holy Qur'an, at chapter 114- 'Sura Nas', or Mankind - the last chapter, and refer to the formula at the head of the chapter:
"IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL."
And the heading of chapter 113:
..."IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL".
And every chapter downwards 112 , 111, 110.......was the same formula and the same meaning on every page, because the end SURAS (chapters) are short and take about a page each.
And what did the prophecy demand?' ......WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME and in whose name does Muhummed speak? 'IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS MOST MERCIFUL.' The Prophecy is being fulfilled in Muhummed to the letter
Every chapter of the Holy Qur'an except the 9th begin with the formula: IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL.' The Muslim begins his every lawful act with the Holy formula as prophesised in Deutronomy 18:19 that the prophet will speak "MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME". But the Christian doe not ONLY speak in gods name as he begins with the unlawful act: "In the name of the Father, son and holy ghost", and will tell you that jesus would agree with this!!
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 02:49 |
|
Now tell me; what do YOU think of:
(Deutronomy 18:20) But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 03:09 |
|
| I asked you first
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
One Zero Seven
Villager
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 11:06 |
|
In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...the Best Knower.
In order to be a Prophet "LIKE" Moses, one would have to have circumstances in his life and work that parallel that of Moses...beyond the ordinary human circumstances.
Propeht Muhammad of Arabia (PBUH) was NOT a Prophet like Moses.
Moses was born from a centuries-enslaved people...Muhammad was not.
Moses was commissioned in the very presence of God...Muhammad was not. (The Bible teaches that he saw God "face to face" - Ex. 33:11)
Moses was taught and sent to challenge a mighty king/ruler(Pharaoh/President) who had his people in bondage for 400 years...Muhammad was not.
Moses was given a Helper to keep his community together while he went to meet with God a SECOND time...Muhammad was not.
Moses and his helper (Aaron) were given authority to bring down plagues on his people's oppressors...Muhammad was not.
The list goes on and on. It is clear that despite the greatness of Prophet Muhammad's Commission and Mighty work, he does NOT fulfill the prophecy of a prophet "like Moses".
Who, then, DOES fulfill this prophecy?
Mal. 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Matthew 17:11,12
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things.
But I say unto you, That Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
The Honorable ELIJAH Muhammad.
RM
____________________
Through the Eyes of a Student <= My New BlogSpot
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
One Zero Seven
Villager
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 11:34 |
|
KANOBI wrote: But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. Deuteronomy 18:20
Yes, and Jesus (like many prophets and apostles) was put to death for speaking, in the name of the One God, all that he was commanded. So, I must ask...
What was the MOTIVE for this post?
RM
Last edited on Saturday March 26th, 2005 11:35 by One Zero Seven
____________________
Through the Eyes of a Student <= My New BlogSpot
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 11:46 |
|
^^I think thats stretching it a bit if you are implying that "elijah" may be elijah muhammad!
Elijah Muhammad brought no new law as did Moses with the commandments and Muhammad with the Quran.
Elijah Muhammad brought no revelation from God. He uses the revelation of Moses and Muhammad.
Elijah Muhammad is not accepted as a prophet as were Moses and Muhammad.
Elijah Muhammad does not speak in the name of god apart when he uses the Quran. The rest of the time he apeaks in the name of a man (WD Fard) who he worships as God.
Moses and Muhammad did not actually see god even though Moses was in his presence and Muhammad ascended to heaven. However, Elijah Muhammad claims that God is a man and came to his house!
Furthermore, if you are quoting Matthew 17:11,12 to say that Elijah has already come (before jesus), then how could he be Elijah Muhammad who was Elijah (or Robert) Poole on October 7, 1897, near Sandersville, Georgia! (after Jesus AND Muhammad)
..This further exemplifies how Muhammad is like Moses, though im also wondering What was the MOTIVE for Obi Wan KANOBI's post?Last edited on Saturday March 26th, 2005 13:06 by jamal786
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 16:26 |
|
But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. Deuteronomy 18:20
Do you completly agree with this statement?
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 17:20 |
|
Do you?
Personally, i do not completly agree with anything in the bible unless it is confirmed by the Quran!
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 17:38 |
|
Whats this?
Now tell me about Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat,
The third one, another goddess.
What! For you the males and for him the females!
That indeed is an unfair division.
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
One Zero Seven
Villager
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 18:50 |
|
KANOBI wrote: Whats this?
Now tell me about Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat,
The third one, another goddess.
What! For you the males and for him the females!
That indeed is an unfair division.
Surah 53
19 Have you then considered Lat and 'Uzzi,
20 And another, the third, Manat?
21 Are the males for you and for Him the females?
22 This indeed is an unjust division!
23 They are naught but names which you have named, you and your fathers -- Allah has sent no authority for them. They follow but conjecture and what (their) souls desire. And certainly the guidance has come to them from their Lord.
24 Or shall man have what he wishes?
25 But for Allah is the Hereafter and the former (life).
Surah 4
116 Surely Allah forgives not setting up partners with Him, and He forgives all besides this to whom He pleases. And whoever sets up a partner with Allah, he indeed goes far astray
117 Besides Him they call on nothing but female divinities and they call on nothing but a rebellious devil,
118 Whom Allah has cursed. And he said: Certainly I will take of Your servants an appointed portion;
119 And certainly I will lead them astray and excite in them vain desires and bid them so that they will slit the ears of the cattle, and bid them so that they will alter Allah's creation. And whoever takes the devil for a friend, forsaking Allah, he indeed suffers a manifest loss.
120 He promises them and excites vain desires in them. And the devil promises them only to deceive.
Surah 6
101 And they regard the jinn to he partners with Allah, and He created them, and they falsely attribute to Him sons and daughters without knowledge. Glory be to Him, and highly exalted is He above what they ascribe (to Him)!
Surah 16
57 And they ascribe daughters to Allah. Glory be to Him! And for themselves is what they desire!
58 And when the birth of a daughter is announced to one of them, his face becomes black and he is full of wrath.
59 He hides himself from the people because of the evil of what is announced to him. Shall he keep it with disgrace or bury it (alive) in the dust? Now surely evil is what they judge!
60 For those who believe not in the Hereafter are evil attributes and Allah's are the sublime attributes. And He is the Mighty, the Wise.
Surah 17
39 This is of the wisdom which your Lord has revealed to you. And associate not any other god with Allah, lest you be thrown into hell, blamed, cast away.
40 Has then your Lord preferred to give you sons, and (for Himself) taken daughters from among the angels? Surely you utter a grievous saying.
Surah 37
149 Now ask them whether your Lord has daughters and they have sons?
150 Or did We create the angels females, while they witnessed?
151 Now surely it is of their own lie that they say:
152 Allah has begotten. And truly they are liars.
153 Has He preferred daughters to sons?
154 What is the matter with you? How you judge!
155 Will you not then mind?
156 Or have you a clear authority?
157 Then bring your Book, if you are truthful.
Surah 43
16 Or has He taken daughters to Himself of what He creates and chosen you to have sons?
17 And when one of them is given news of that of which he sets up a likeness for the Beneficent, his face becomes black and he is full of rage.
18 Is one decked with ornaments and unable to make plain speech in disputes (a partner with Allah)?
19 And they make the angels, who are the servants of the Beneficent, females. Did they witness their creation? Their evidence will be recorded and they will be questioned.
20 And they say, If the Beneficent had pleased, we should not have worshipped them. They have no knowledge of this; they only lie.
Surah 52
29 So remind for, by the grace of your Lord you are no soothsayer, nor madman.
30 Or say they: A poet -- we wait for him the evil accidents of time.
31 Say: Wait, I too wait along with you.
32 Or do their understandings bid them this? Or are they an inordinate people?
33 Or say they: He has forged it. Nay, they have no faith.
34 Then let them bring a saying like it, if they are truthful.
35 Or were they created without a (creative) agency? Or are they the creators?
36 Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they are sure of nothing.
37 Or have they the treasures of your Lord with them? Or have they absolute authority?
38 Or have they the means by which they listen? Then let their listener bring a clear authority.
39 Or has He daughters and you have sons?
40 Or ask you a reward from them so that they are over-burdened by a debt?
41 Or possess they the unseen, so they write (it) down?
42 Or do they intend a plot? But those who disbelieve will be the ensnared ones in the plot.
43 Or have they a god other than Allah? Glory be to Allah from what they set up (with Him)
44 And if they were to see a portion of the heaven coming down, they would say: Piled-up clouds!
45 Leave them then till they meet that day of theirs wherein they are smitten with punishment:
46 The day when their struggle will avail them naught, nor will they be helped.
Surah 53
27 Surely those who believe not in the Hereafter name the angels with female names.
28 And they have no knowledge of it. They follow but conjecture, and surely conjecture avails naught against Truth.
29 So shun him who turns his back upon Our Reminder, and desires nothing but this world's life.
____________________
Through the Eyes of a Student <= My New BlogSpot
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 19:23 |
|
Nicely answered 107.
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 19:25 |
|
Did muhammed presume to speak in the name of Allah anything he was not commanded to say? Did muhammed speak in the name of other gods? Do you agree with the penlty for a prophet of this sort?
Last edited on Saturday March 26th, 2005 19:25 by KANOBI
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 20:32 |
|
...get to the point! 
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 20:46 |
|
Did muhammed presume to speak in the name of Allah anything he was not commanded to say? Did muhammed speak in the name of other gods? Do you agree with the penlty for a prophet of this sort?
I say Muhammed did these things and should have been put to death by law. At least that should have been the case if he was from amongst the brethren of the Israelites but Muhammed had nothing to do with them but that is another story.
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 20:57 |
|
...So NO "Point" then!!....
(Deuteronomy 18:18-19) I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
"A PROPHET... LIKE UNTO THEE?"??
In the FIRST place Jesus is NOT like Moses, because, according to You - 'JESUS IS A GOD', but Moses is not God. Is this true?" If Yes: Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses!
SECONDLY, according to You - 'JESUS DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD', but Moses did not have to die for the sins of the world. Is this true?" If "Yes.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses!
THIRDLY, according to You - 'JESUS WENT TO HELL FOR THREE DAYS', but Moses did not have to go there. Is this true?" If: "Y-e-s.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses!
Fouthly, Moses had a father and a mother. Muhummed also had a father and a mother. But Jesus had only a mother, and no human father. Is this true?
Fithly, Moses and Muhummed were born in the normal, natural course, i.e. the physical association of man and woman; but Jesus was created by a special miracle. Jesus is therefore not like Moses, Is this true?
Moses and Muhummed married and begat children, but Jesus remained a bachelor all his life. Is this true?": "Yes.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses.
Moses and Muhummed were accepted as prophets by their people in their very lifetime. No doubt the Jews gave endless trouble to Moses and they murmured in the wilderness, but as a nation, they acknowledged that Moses was a Messenger of God sent to them. And even today, after two thousand years, his people- the Jews, as a whole, have rejected him. Is this true?": "Yes.": THEREFORE JESUS IS NOT LIKE MOSES, BUT MUHUMMED IS LIKE MOSES.
Both Moses and Muhummed died natural deaths, but according to Christianity, Jesus was violently killed on the cross. Is this true?" "Yes.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses.
Moses and Muhummed both lie buried in earth, but according to you, Jesus in heaven. Is this true?" Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses
"I WILL RAISE THEM UP A PROPHET FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN LIKE UNTO THEE......."??
The emphasis is on the words- "From among their brethren." Moses and his people, the Jews, are here addressed as a racial entity, and as such their 'brethren' would undoubtedly be the Arabs. You see, the Holy Bible speaks of Abraham as the "Friend of God". Abraham had two wives - Sarah and Hagar. Hagar bore Abraham a son - HIS FIRST-BORN- '......And Abraham1 called HIS SON'S name, which Hagar bare Ishmael.' (Genesis 16:15). 'And Abraham took Ishmael HIS SON......" (Genesis 17:23). 'And Ishmael HIS SON was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.'(Genesis 17:25). Up to the age of THIRTEEN Ishmael was the ONLY son and seed of Abraham, when the covenant was ratified between God and Abraham. God grants Abraham another son through Sarah, named Isaac, who was very much the junior to his brother Ishmael.
If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham, then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. The children of Isaac are the Jews and the Children of Ishmael are the Arabs - so they are BRETHREN to one another. The Bible affirms, 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) SHALL DWELL IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.' (Genesis 16:12). 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) DIED IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN. (Genesis 25:18). The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelites. In like manner Muhummed is from among the brethren of the Israelites because he was a descendant of Ishmael the son of Abraham. This exactly as the prophecy has it- 'FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN'.(Deut.18:18). There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among themselves', but from among their brethren. MUHUMMED THEREFORE WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN!
"MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME"
The very first revelation of the Quran tell us whose name Muhammad did speak in;
Surah 96. The Clot, Read!
1. Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
2. Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:
3. Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-
4. He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-
5. Taught man that which he knew not.
Furthermore, in the verse 19 of Deuteronomy chapter 18, we have a further fulfilment of the prophecy in Muhummed! Note the words-'.....MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME," In whose name is Muhummed speaking?" I open Yusuf Ali's translation of the Holy Qur'an, at chapter 114- 'Sura Nas', or Mankind - the last chapter, and refer to the formula at the head of the chapter:
"IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL."
And the heading of chapter 113:
..."IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL".
And every chapter downwards 112 , 111, 110.......was the same formula and the same meaning on every page, because the end SURAS (chapters) are short and take about a page each.
And what did the prophecy demand?' ......WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME and in whose name does Muhummed speak? 'IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS MOST MERCIFUL.' The Prophecy is being fulfilled in Muhummed to the letter
Every chapter of the Holy Qur'an except the 9th begin with the formula: IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL.' The Muslim begins his every lawful act with the Holy formula as prophesised in Deutronomy 18:19 that the prophet will speak "MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME".
In contrast to this, the Christian does not ONLY speak in gods name.
...Instead he begins with the unlawful act: "In the name of the Father, son and holy ghost", and will tell you that jesus would agree with this!!
...Now tell me again WHO should be "put to death"?...
...and as it has already been pointed out.. you believe he was put to death for blaspheming!!
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 21:02 |
|
Your reasoning can be extended to include everyone as brethren. Anyway regardless Muhammed broke the law
But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. Deuteronomy 18:20
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 21:05 |
|
| What law was that then?
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 21:10 |
|
This one
But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. Deuteronomy 18:20
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 21:12 |
|
| So how did he do that then?
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 21:25 |
|
So you don't know how he broke this Law? bad if true right? Or bible corrupted? (why use then bible then?)
But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. Deuteronomy 18:20
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 21:33 |
|
1. Personally, i do not completly agree with anything in the bible unless it is confirmed by the Quran!
2. IF you have a corroborated point to make then make it!
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 21:37 |
|
When the inhabitants of Mecca heard Muhammad's confess the importance of the ancient goddesses inside the Ka'aba, they immediately revoked their ban on him. Those who had immigrated to Abyssinia (Ethiopia) started to return home after hearing Muhammad's confession and his acceptance in Mecca. But when they arrived, they were shocked to hear that Muhammad had retracted his confession and admitted that he had fallen prey to the whispering of Satan. Thus, today Islam considers Sura an-Najm (Star) 53:19-22 are related to the time when Muhammad spoke the the Satanic Verses.
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:02 |
|
So youve finally got to the point..
It was alleged that Muhammad (S), in a spirit of compromise, implicitly accepted the worship of old pagan idols, Lat, 'Uzza and Manat.
It is inconceivable that Muhammad (S) would compromise on the issue of monotheism.
Tawhid, described best as pure Monotheism without any associates or even subsidiary deities, is at the core of Islam. Every Qur'anic verse is suffused and illuminated with the concept of Tawhid, which is at once both intimidating and liberating. Some of the scholars who chronicled the words and deeds of Muhammad (S) (Hadith and Sirah), notably at-Tabari and Ibn Ishaq, considered it plausible and recorded this incident while most others, including Bukhari and Muslim believed that the narrators (rawis) were not trustworthy and rejected it.
As it has ALREADY been posted above by 107, regarding Lat and 'Uzzi, and Manat, Surah 53:23 states:
"They are naught but names which you have named, you and your fathers -- Allah has sent no authority for them."
"Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (The Noble Quran, 98:6)"
"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:06 |
|
Have a look at all the evidence http://muhammadanism.org/Quran/SatanicVerses.htm
Also is the word Tawhid found in the Quran?
Last edited on Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:10 by KANOBI
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:11 |
|
It was alleged that Muhammad (S), in a spirit of compromise, implicitly accepted the worship of old pagan idols, Lat, 'Uzza and Manat.
It is inconceivable that Muhammad (S) would compromise on the issue of monotheism.
Tawhid, described best as pure Monotheism without any associates or even subsidiary deities, is at the core of Islam. Every Qur'anic verse is suffused and illuminated with the concept of Tawhid, which is at once both intimidating and liberating. Some of the scholars who chronicled the words and deeds of Muhammad (S) (Hadith and Sirah), notably at-Tabari and Ibn Ishaq, considered it plausible and recorded this incident while most others, including Bukhari and Muslim believed that the narrators (rawis) were not trustworthy and rejected it.
As it has ALREADY been posted above by 107, regarding Lat and 'Uzzi, and Manat, Surah 53:23 states:
"They are naught but names which you have named, you and your fathers -- Allah has sent no authority for them."
"Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (The Noble Quran, 98:6)"
"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:12 |
|
Why would and Muslim see the Satanic verses as pluasible? Why would they say such a thing? Ummmmm?????????
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
LadyDay
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Thursday October 2nd, 2003 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 6156 |
| Photo: | [Download] |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:13 |
|
there you have it
the difference between Jesus and Muhammed
Jesus lived a sin-free life only praising God. He was never compromised. tempted yes but never gave into it
muhammed is not the same
Last edited on Sunday March 27th, 2005 11:05 by LadyDay
____________________
I am too blessed to be stressed and too anointed to be disappointed!
Think outside of the box...Think in spirit
Act as if it were impossible to fail!!!
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:14 |
|
Tawhid in the Quran.
Central to Islamic belief is the oneness or unity (in Arabic: tawhid) of Allah, or God; this is expressed in the basic statement of faith (the shahadah ): "There is no god but god." The basic teaching of Islam is that all religions at some level express this basic truth, but have been infected by some form of "associationism" (shirk ), the belief that there is some other thing as absolute as god, whether that other thing be another god or simply the self. Tawhid , the unity of God, means that God has no associates, no parents, and no children. The only guarantee of human salvation in the Qur'an is this knowledge, and affirmation, that there is no divinity but god.
"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:25 |
|
..and not to put a dampner on you and Ladyday's celebrations, but your article actually states:
"Under increasing boycotts and pressure, Muhammad went through a time of weakness and compromised with the Meccan pagans by acknowledging the existence of three pagan goddesses alongside Allah: Lat, Uzza, and Manat."
However, these is no "acknowledgement that they were real, as it has ALREADY been posted above by 107, regarding Lat and 'Uzzi, and Manat, Surah 53:23 shows that this is actually a misconception and misunderstanding of the Quran text, as it actually follows on to state:
"They are naught but names which you have named, you and your fathers -- Allah has sent no authority for them."
Furthermore, Some of the scholars who chronicled the words and deeds of Muhammad (S) (Hadith and Sirah), notably at-Tabari and Ibn Ishaq, considered it plausible that Muhammad "acknowledged" these idols as gods, and recorded this incident while most others, including Bukhari and Muslim believed that the narrators (rawis) were not trustworthy and rejected it.
Last edited on Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:29 by jamal786
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:29 |
|
The bible also says God is one the Hebrew word Echad is used with can be applied to a unity a their is none like God according to both Jewish and Christian belief. Can you tell me the nature of the word one used in the sentance you posted? Can it be used in the same way? Could the Quran be refuting a the idea of God having a created son. Could it mean Allah has a Daughter goddess?
This is how this site dealt with a questioner.
http://www.muhammadanism.org/Inquiries/Trinity/trinity_not_in_bible.htm
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:31 |
|
jamal786 wrote: ..and not to put a dampner on you and Ladyday's celebrations, but your article actually states:
"Under increasing boycotts and pressure, Muhammad went through a time of weakness and compromised with the Meccan pagans by acknowledging the existence of three pagan goddesses alongside Allah: Lat, Uzza, and Manat."
However, these is no "acknowledgement that they were real, as it has ALREADY been posted above by 107, regarding Lat and 'Uzzi, and Manat, Surah 53:23 shows that this is actually a misconception and misunderstanding of the Quran text, as it actually follows on to state:
"They are naught but names which you have named, you and your fathers -- Allah has sent no authority for them."
Furthermore, Some of the scholars who chronicled the words and deeds of Muhammad (S) (Hadith and Sirah), notably at-Tabari and Ibn Ishaq, considered it plausible that Muhammad "acknowledged" these idols as gods, and recorded this incident while most others, including Bukhari and Muslim believed that the narrators (rawis) were not trustworthy and rejected it.
So they just pulled it from the air?
There is no fire behind the smoke?
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:45 |
|
What your site ignores is that Tawid is "oness and unity" of God, and this is presented explicitly and represented throughout the Quran. Whereas the "trinity" is not presented either explicitly, either in or throughout the bible!
The trinity is a representation of paganism which is not represented in the bible, but presented by christianity.
In contary to your misrepresentation and regardless of where it came from, Surah 53:23 of the Quran, in fact shows that paganism as presented in your article has NO authority or value by stating:
"They are naught but names which you have named, you and your fathers -- Allah has sent no authority for them."
Tawhid in the Quran.
Central to Islamic belief is the oneness or unity (in Arabic: tawhid) of Allah, or God; this is expressed in the basic statement of faith (the shahadah ): "There is no god but god." The basic teaching of Islam is that all religions at some level express this basic truth, but have been infected by some form of "associationism" (shirk ), the belief that there is some other thing as absolute as god, whether that other thing be another god or simply the self. Tawhid , the unity of God, means that God has no associates, no parents, and no children. The only guarantee of human salvation in the Qur'an is this knowledge, and affirmation, that there is no divinity but god.
"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"
"And we never sent a messenger before thee save that We revealed to him, saying, "There is no God but I, so worship Me" Al-Qur'an, 21:25
"Quran 6:101 And they regard the jinn to he partners with Allah, and He created them, and they falsely attribute to Him sons and daughters without knowledge. Glory be to Him, and highly exalted is He above what they ascribe (to Him)!" Last edited on Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:49 by jamal786
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 23:05 |
|
The trinity is a representation of paganism which is not represented in the bible, but presented by christianity.
No Tahwid is
Also for more on the satanic verses read
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Responses/Saifullah/sverses.htm
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Green/satanic.htm
http://www.muslimhope.com/DaughtersOfAllah.htm
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 23:26 |
|
Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet performed a prostration when he finished reciting Surat-an-Najm, and all the Muslims and pagans and Jinns and human beings prostrated along with him. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 6, p. 363).
Whats this?
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 27th, 2005 00:11 |
|
That is a report of Hadith, and Hadith is not the "revelation of god", and not neccessarily the Sunnah of the prophet.
However, in answer to you post:
Your Alleged "Satanic Verse" is:
The orientalists allege that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, was worried about the enmity of the non-believers in Makkah. In such a state of mind one day went to Ka`bah where he recited to the gathering of believers and non-believers Surah An-Najm 53 which is said to have been revealed at that time.
The allegation is that in the course of its recitation and when he uttered the verse 19-20 “Do you see al Lat and al `Uzza and the other third Manat?� Satan threw in the couplet “Those are the swans exalted; verily their intercession is to be expected�.
The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, then completed the Surah and at the end of it went into prostration in accordance with the last verse. All those present there, the believers and non-believers also did so except an old Quraish*te leader (Umayyah Ibn Khalaf or Al-Walid Ibn Al-Mughirah or Abu Umayyah) who raised a handful of dust and touched it with his forehead saying that would suffice for him. The Quraish*te leaders are said to have given out as reason for their prostration themselves, by saying that now that the Prophet had recognized the position of their goddesses as intercessors with Allah, there was in fact no point of quarrel with him.
Afterwards, in the evening (some versions do not specify any time) Jibril came to the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and asked him to recite the Surah, which he did, still reciting the “satanic verses�. Jibril protested, saying that those were not what had been revealed. At this, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, became very sad and apprehensive of Allah’s wrath. Thereupon two separate passages, 17:73-75 and 22-52 were revealed in reassuring the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and the “satanic verses� were repealed. The Quraish*te leaders became angry and renewed their enmity and opposition with increased vehemence. Meanwhile the news of non-believers’ prostration reached Abyssinia in the form of rumor of their compromise with the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and the Muslims returned to Makkah.
My Reply to this weak allegation is:
The story is so manifestly absurd and untrue that it ought to have been rejected outright as such and not recorded by the chroniclers and traditionalists. But since some of them have recorded it has often been cited as ground for its genuineness, rather than the obviously discrediting features of the story itself.
Imam Fakhr Ad-Din Ar-Razi correctly points out that those who have critically looked at the story have all rejected it as spurious on the grounds of its conflict with the clear testimony of the Qur’an, the rules governing the genuineness of traditions and the dictates of reason.
The Qur’anic evidence against the genuineness of the story is of three kinds.
There are a number of statements in the Qur’an that show that neither Satan nor anyone else could interfere in the process of coming of the revelation. Nor did the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, ever entertain any intention of making compromise with the unbelieving leaders, nor did he ever interpolate in the text of the revelation.
The passages cited as having been revealed as a sequel to the incident and for reassuring the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, prove to the contrary, showing that he had not made even the slightest move towards making a compromise with the unbelieving leaders.
The internal evidence of Surah An-Najm (53), in connection with the revelation of which the story has been foisted, goes against its spirit and purpose.
THE PASSAGES FROM THE QUR’AN THAT DIRECTLY BELIE THE STORY ARE AS FOLLOWS:
“If he (Messenger) were to invent any saying in Our Name, We should certainly have seized him by the right hand and We should then have surely cut off the artery of his heart"
[Qur’an 60:44-46]
“Say; It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it (the revelation). I follow naught but what is revealed unto me"
[Qur'an 10:15]
“No falsehood can approach it from the front, nor from the rear (i.e. neither directly nor indirectly). It is sent-down from Allah the All-Wise, the All-Praiseworthy.�
[Qur'an 41:42]
“We indeed have sent down the recital (the Qur’an) and indeed are its Protectors (from any interference).�
[Qur'an 15:9]
“In what way (We have revealed it), that We may make your heart firm thereby; and We have dictated it in stages.�
[Qur'an 25:32]
It is seen from the above that the Qur’an repeatedly assures that Allah has protected it against any possibility of being tampered with directly or indirectly, that it is not for the Prophet to change it or add to it anything. If he had done so, Allah’s severe punishment would inevitably and irresistibly have befallen him. These clear and positive statements directly contradict the story, which says that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, of his own accord or being deceived by Satan introduced something into the text of revelation. Not only that. The alleged interpolation violated the fundamental teaching of the Qur’an – monotheism (Tauhid) and thus constituted the offence of shirk which Allah warns elsewhere in the Qur’an that He shall under no circumstances forgive.
The story is thus quite contrary to the specific statements of the Qur’an and also to the tenor and purport of its entire text. As such the story is totally unworthy of any credence. This is not simply from a Muslim’s point of view, but also from true historian’s point of view.
The two passages of the Qur’an that are said to have been revealed as a sequel to the story are as follows:
“Indeed they were about to divert you from what We revealed to you, in order that you forge against Us something else, and in that case they would certainly have taken you as a friend. And had We not made you firm, you would almost have inclined towards them a little; and in that case we would have made you taste the double (punishment) in death; and then you would not have found for you as against Us any helper.�
[Qur'an 17:73-75]
These verses were revealed 11 or 12 years after the call to Prophethood.
“Never did We send a Messenger nor a Prophet before you, but that when he formed an intention Satan threw something in his intention; but Allah cancels what Satan throws in and then makes His sign prevail. Allah is All-knowing, All-Wise.
[Qur'an 22:52]
This verse was revealed during the 1st year of Hijrah.
A little careful look at them would at once show that their texts, far from supporting the story, do in fact contradict it.
The first passage shows that it was the unbelievers who attempted to induce the Prophet to making a compromise with them, not that he ever wanted it. The passage further states that Allah made the Prophet’s heart firm against such attempts of the unbelievers. The emphasis here is on the intensity of the unbelievers’ attempts, and Allah’s special favor upon the Prophet making him immune against such efforts and because of such special favor, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, did not incline towards the unbelievers even a little. Finally the above verse warns that, had the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, been guilty of slight inclination towards the unbelievers’ proposals, he would have been doubly punished by Allah.
It is strange that the orientalists mention the above verses revealed about 8 or 9 years after the alleged incident as assurance from Allah, because during this period so many major events had taken place, including the Hijrah.
The Internal Evidence of Surah An-Najm (53)
The Surah starts emphasizing that,
“He (the Prophet) does not speak out of his desire. It is naught but Wahy (revelation) communicated to him.� In verses 3-4. The Surah declares that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, has not gone astray, nor erred, nor does he speak out of his own desire, but what he gives out is only revelation communicated to him. It is impossible to think that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, would immediately add the alleged two verse within this Surah itself, thus contradicting the very essence of the Surah. Though there are over 15 versions of the allegation, all the versions agree that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, recited the whole of Surah An-Najm on this occasion and prostrated himself at the end of it.
The alleged verses as follows:
“Those are swans exalted. Whose intercession is to be expected.�
These alleged two verses do not fit in any place in the Surah. If we simply insert them after verse 19 and 20 they will read as follows:
“Have you then considered Al-Lat and Al-Uzza (two idols of the pagan Arabs)
[v.19]
And Manat (another idol of the pagan Arabs), the third?
[v.20]
Those are swans exalted. Whose intercession is to be expected.
[???]
Is it for you the males and for Him the females?
[v. 21]
That indeed is a division most unfair
[v.22]
They are but names, which you have named, - you and your fathers- for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow but a guess and that which they themselves desire, whereas there has surely come to the Guidance from their Lord.
[v.23]
Or shall man have what he wishes?
[v.24]
But to Allah belongs the last (hereafter) and the first (the world)�
[v.25]
A simple glance shows that the alleged satanic verses shown in bold above do not fit in any place in the Surah An-Najm. The whole text from verses 19 to the end of the Surah has a unity and continuity on both theme and sequence. There is no giving-in on the question of intercession by anyone; no relaxation of the principle of individual and personal responsibility, no softening down of denunciation of the conduct of the unbelieving leaders and no room given to accommodating their attitudes.
The following additional information should be noted on this insinuation.
The story has come down in about a dozen varying versions and does not have a strong chain of narrators (Isnad). It is technically regarded as Mursal – i.e. its Isnad does not go up beyond the second generation (Tabi`un) after the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him. One of the versions traces back to `Abd Allah Ibn `Abbas as eye-witness, who was born some five years after the alleged event was said to have taken place. Apart from this, all the persons in the Isnad have names who are considered weak, unreliable or unknown.
The report itself suffer from grave differences and disagreements in all the four essential respects, namely:
* The occasion of the incident;
* Nature of the Prophet’s alleged act;
* The wording of the alleged “satanic verses�- as many as 15 different texts;
* The effect or sequel of the alleged incident.
There are reports that say, more significantly, that while the unbelievers heard the alleged “satanic verses�, the believers did not at all hear them. All the versions unanimously show that no objection or uneasiness was expressed by any of the believers at the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, alleged utterance of the verses, nor to his alleged dropping of them subsequently. If such an unusual incident as the giving out of some compromising verses and their subsequent withdrawal had at all taken place, it would have been narrated by some of the many Companions of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him.
`Abdallah Ibn Mas`ud says that Surah An-Najm was the first Surah, which the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, recited in front of a gathering of believers and non-believers at the Ka`bah compound. When he finished it and went into prostration, all those who were present, believers and non-believers also prostrated themselves. It is an acknowledged fact that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and the Muslims could not publicly and in a body perform prayer or recite the Qur’an at the Ka`bah before the conversion of `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, and the revelation of Sura An-Najm took place after his conversion. Conversion of `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, was a great gain to Islam.
The Qur’an has the stunning effect on every non-believing Quraish*te who heard it and their leaders such as `Utbah Ibn Rabi`ah themselves had confessed to this. As such, the non-believers without realizing what they were doing would have gone to prostration as commanded in the last verse of the Surah, together with the Muslims. Since the Quraish*te leaders prostrated themselves or made a show of prostration, they must have been pressed by their followers to explain their act. When they realized what they have done, they would have tried to find a justification for their unintentional act of abiding by the Qur’anic command.
The other fact that needs emphasizing in this connection is that the text of the so-called “satanic verses� was no new composition made on the occasion. It was an old couplet that the Quraish*te pagans used to recite in praise of their goddess while circumambulating the Ka`bah. It is also to be remembered that the unbelievers used to create noise and disturbances whenever the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, or Muslims recited the Qur’an publicly. Therefore, it is very likely that when the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, recited the Surah and mentioned al-Lat and al-`Uzza in the course of his recitation and in a denunciatory strain, some of the Quraish*te unbelievers instantly interrupted and protested by shouting out the couplets. Significantly enough, some versions of the story clearly state that the “satanic verses� were uttered not by the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, but by Satan or some unbelievers, and they specifically state that the Muslims did not hear it.
http://www.islamonline.net/English/In_Depth/mohamed/1424/misconception/article04.shtmlLast edited on Sunday March 27th, 2005 00:13 by jamal786
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 27th, 2005 00:23 |
|
| Funny story but it fits best with the earlier Hadiths that acknowledge the Satanic verses. But I understand you can't accept them and remain Muslim.
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 27th, 2005 00:34 |
|
Actually, it is articles such as these that make me a stronger Muslim as it promotes the authenticity of Islam by successfully refuting weak claims against it..
If you read it carefully, you will find that it answers every single point you have made on the matter, and also places any relevant points/misconceptions in their proper context, whether they are from you, or from the websites you have presented.
The point you was trying to present was that you thought Muhammad "spoke in the names of idols". However, your claim has remained unproven!
Your Alleged "Satanic Verse" is:
The orientalists allege that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, was worried about the enmity of the non-believers in Makkah. In such a state of mind one day went to Ka`bah where he recited to the gathering of believers and non-believers Surah An-Najm 53 which is said to have been revealed at that time.
The allegation is that in the course of its recitation and when he uttered the verse 19-20 “Do you see al Lat and al `Uzza and the other third Manat?� Satan threw in the couplet “Those are the swans exalted; verily their intercession is to be expected�.
The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, then completed the Surah and at the end of it went into prostration in accordance with the last verse. All those present there, the believers and non-believers also did so except an old Quraish*te leader (Umayyah Ibn Khalaf or Al-Walid Ibn Al-Mughirah or Abu Umayyah) who raised a handful of dust and touched it with his forehead saying that would suffice for him. The Quraish*te leaders are said to have given out as reason for their prostration themselves, by saying that now that the Prophet had recognized the position of their goddesses as intercessors with Allah, there was in fact no point of quarrel with him.
Afterwards, in the evening (some versions do not specify any time) Jibril came to the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and asked him to recite the Surah, which he did, still reciting the “satanic verses�. Jibril protested, saying that those were not what had been revealed. At this, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, became very sad and apprehensive of Allah’s wrath. Thereupon two separate passages, 17:73-75 and 22-52 were revealed in reassuring the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and the “satanic verses� were repealed. The Quraish*te leaders became angry and renewed their enmity and opposition with increased vehemence. Meanwhile the news of non-believers’ prostration reached Abyssinia in the form of rumor of their compromise with the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and the Muslims returned to Makkah.
My Reply to this weak allegation is:
The story is so manifestly absurd and untrue that it ought to have been rejected outright as such and not recorded by the chroniclers and traditionalists. But since some of them have recorded it has often been cited as ground for its genuineness, rather than the obviously discrediting features of the story itself.
Imam Fakhr Ad-Din Ar-Razi correctly points out that those who have critically looked at the story have all rejected it as spurious on the grounds of its conflict with the clear testimony of the Qur’an, the rules governing the genuineness of traditions and the dictates of reason.
The Qur’anic evidence against the genuineness of the story is of three kinds.
There are a number of statements in the Qur’an that show that neither Satan nor anyone else could interfere in the process of coming of the revelation. Nor did the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, ever entertain any intention of making compromise with the unbelieving leaders, nor did he ever interpolate in the text of the revelation.
The passages cited as having been revealed as a sequel to the incident and for reassuring the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, prove to the contrary, showing that he had not made even the slightest move towards making a compromise with the unbelieving leaders.
The internal evidence of Surah An-Najm (53), in connection with the revelation of which the story has been foisted, goes against its spirit and purpose.
THE PASSAGES FROM THE QUR’AN THAT DIRECTLY BELIE THE STORY ARE AS FOLLOWS:
“If he (Messenger) were to invent any saying in Our Name, We should certainly have seized him by the right hand and We should then have surely cut off the artery of his heart"
[Qur’an 60:44-46]
“Say; It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it (the revelation). I follow naught but what is revealed unto me"
[Qur'an 10:15]
“No falsehood can approach it from the front, nor from the rear (i.e. neither directly nor indirectly). It is sent-down from Allah the All-Wise, the All-Praiseworthy.�
[Qur'an 41:42]
“We indeed have sent down the recital (the Qur’an) and indeed are its Protectors (from any interference).�
[Qur'an 15:9]
“In what way (We have revealed it), that We may make your heart firm thereby; and We have dictated it in stages.�
[Qur'an 25:32]
It is seen from the above that the Qur’an repeatedly assures that Allah has protected it against any possibility of being tampered with directly or indirectly, that it is not for the Prophet to change it or add to it anything. If he had done so, Allah’s severe punishment would inevitably and irresistibly have befallen him. These clear and positive statements directly contradict the story, which says that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, of his own accord or being deceived by Satan introduced something into the text of revelation. Not only that. The alleged interpolation violated the fundamental teaching of the Qur’an – monotheism (Tauhid) and thus constituted the offence of shirk which Allah warns elsewhere in the Qur’an that He shall under no circumstances forgive.
The story is thus quite contrary to the specific statements of the Qur’an and also to the tenor and purport of its entire text. As such the story is totally unworthy of any credence. This is not simply from a Muslim’s point of view, but also from true historian’s point of view.
The two passages of the Qur’an that are said to have been revealed as a sequel to the story are as follows:
“Indeed they were about to divert you from what We revealed to you, in order that you forge against Us something else, and in that case they would certainly have taken you as a friend. And had We not made you firm, you would almost have inclined towards them a little; and in that case we would have made you taste the double (punishment) in death; and then you would not have found for you as against Us any helper.�
[Qur'an 17:73-75]
These verses were revealed 11 or 12 years after the call to Prophethood.
“Never did We send a Messenger nor a Prophet before you, but that when he formed an intention Satan threw something in his intention; but Allah cancels what Satan throws in and then makes His sign prevail. Allah is All-knowing, All-Wise.
[Qur'an 22:52]
This verse was revealed during the 1st year of Hijrah.
A little careful look at them would at once show that their texts, far from supporting the story, do in fact contradict it.
The first passage shows that it was the unbelievers who attempted to induce the Prophet to making a compromise with them, not that he ever wanted it. The passage further states that Allah made the Prophet’s heart firm against such attempts of the unbelievers. The emphasis here is on the intensity of the unbelievers’ attempts, and Allah’s special favor upon the Prophet making him immune against such efforts and because of such special favor, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, did not incline towards the unbelievers even a little. Finally the above verse warns that, had the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, been guilty of slight inclination towards the unbelievers’ proposals, he would have been doubly punished by Allah.
It is strange that the orientalists mention the above verses revealed about 8 or 9 years after the alleged incident as assurance from Allah, because during this period so many major events had taken place, including the Hijrah.
The Internal Evidence of Surah An-Najm (53)
The Surah starts emphasizing that,
“He (the Prophet) does not speak out of his desire. It is naught but Wahy (revelation) communicated to him.� In verses 3-4. The Surah declares that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, has not gone astray, nor erred, nor does he speak out of his own desire, but what he gives out is only revelation communicated to him. It is impossible to think that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, would immediately add the alleged two verse within this Surah itself, thus contradicting the very essence of the Surah. Though there are over 15 versions of the allegation, all the versions agree that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, recited the whole of Surah An-Najm on this occasion and prostrated himself at the end of it.
The alleged verses as follows:
“Those are swans exalted. Whose intercession is to be expected.�
These alleged two verses do not fit in any place in the Surah. If we simply insert them after verse 19 and 20 they will read as follows:
“Have you then considered Al-Lat and Al-Uzza (two idols of the pagan Arabs)
[v.19]
And Manat (another idol of the pagan Arabs), the third?
[v.20]
Those are swans exalted. Whose intercession is to be expected.
[???]
Is it for you the males and for Him the females?
[v. 21]
That indeed is a division most unfair
[v.22]
They are but names, which you have named, - you and your fathers- for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow but a guess and that which they themselves desire, whereas there has surely come to the Guidance from their Lord.
[v.23]
Or shall man have what he wishes?
[v.24]
But to Allah belongs the last (hereafter) and the first (the world)�
[v.25]
A simple glance shows that the alleged satanic verses shown in bold above do not fit in any place in the Surah An-Najm. The whole text from verses 19 to the end of the Surah has a unity and continuity on both theme and sequence. There is no giving-in on the question of intercession by anyone; no relaxation of the principle of individual and personal responsibility, no softening down of denunciation of the conduct of the unbelieving leaders and no room given to accommodating their attitudes.
The following additional information should be noted on this insinuation.
The story has come down in about a dozen varying versions and does not have a strong chain of narrators (Isnad). It is technically regarded as Mursal – i.e. its Isnad does not go up beyond the second generation (Tabi`un) after the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him. One of the versions traces back to `Abd Allah Ibn `Abbas as eye-witness, who was born some five years after the alleged event was said to have taken place. Apart from this, all the persons in the Isnad have names who are considered weak, unreliable or unknown.
The report itself suffer from grave differences and disagreements in all the four essential respects, namely:
* The occasion of the incident;
* Nature of the Prophet’s alleged act;
* The wording of the alleged “satanic verses�- as many as 15 different texts;
* The effect or sequel of the alleged incident.
There are reports that say, more significantly, that while the unbelievers heard the alleged “satanic verses�, the believers did not at all hear them. All the versions unanimously show that no objection or uneasiness was expressed by any of the believers at the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, alleged utterance of the verses, nor to his alleged dropping of them subsequently. If such an unusual incident as the giving out of some compromising verses and their subsequent withdrawal had at all taken place, it would have been narrated by some of the many Companions of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him.
`Abdallah Ibn Mas`ud says that Surah An-Najm was the first Surah, which the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, recited in front of a gathering of believers and non-believers at the Ka`bah compound. When he finished it and went into prostration, all those who were present, believers and non-believers also prostrated themselves. It is an acknowledged fact that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and the Muslims could not publicly and in a body perform prayer or recite the Qur’an at the Ka`bah before the conversion of `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, and the revelation of Sura An-Najm took place after his conversion. Conversion of `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, was a great gain to Islam.
The Qur’an has the stunning effect on every non-believing Quraish*te who heard it and their leaders such as `Utbah Ibn Rabi`ah themselves had confessed to this. As such, the non-believers without realizing what they were doing would have gone to prostration as commanded in the last verse of the Surah, together with the Muslims. Since the Quraish*te leaders prostrated themselves or made a show of prostration, they must have been pressed by their followers to explain their act. When they realized what they have done, they would have tried to find a justification for their unintentional act of abiding by the Qur’anic command.
The other fact that needs emphasizing in this connection is that the text of the so-called “satanic verses� was no new composition made on the occasion. It was an old couplet that the Quraish*te pagans used to recite in praise of their goddess while circumambulating the Ka`bah. It is also to be remembered that the unbelievers used to create noise and disturbances whenever the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, or Muslims recited the Qur’an publicly. Therefore, it is very likely that when the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, recited the Surah and mentioned al-Lat and al-`Uzza in the course of his recitation and in a denunciatory strain, some of the Quraish*te unbelievers instantly interrupted and protested by shouting out the couplets. Significantly enough, some versions of the story clearly state that the “satanic verses� were uttered not by the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, but by Satan or some unbelievers, and they specifically state that the Muslims did not hear it.
http://www.islamonline.net/English/In_Depth/mohamed/1424/misconception/article04.shtml
Last edited on Sunday March 27th, 2005 00:40 by jamal786
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
KANOBI
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 409 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 27th, 2005 00:39 |
|
Nine Muslim Objections and Responses
Muslim Objection 1: People besides these eleven did not mention the Satanic verses. Some Muslim scholars who did not write about the Satanic verses are Imam Muslim who wrote Sahih Muslim, Abu Dawud, Nas’ai, Ahmad bin Hanbal, and ibn Hisham.
Response: There are numerous things in one collection of Hadiths that are not in other collections. For example, the longer Bukhari Hadiths do not have the material on why to pay zakat, the punishment of hoarding, and two angels visiting a Muslim every morning as found in Sahih Muslim vol.2:2205 p.484. As a second example, we know that Ibn Hisham used Bukhari, but he left out the part about the Satanic verses. In Ibn Hisham’s copy of Ibn Ishaq, he said he edited out things he thought inappropriate. If he was too embarrassed to put it in, that is not proof that it did not happen.
Muslim objection 2: The alleged Satanic verses do not fit in with the rest of Sura 53.
Response: Remember that the modern part did not follow the Satanic verses, but rather replaced them. Also, there are cases where different parts of one Sura were given at different times. On one hand al-Wahidi said Mohammed recited through the closing words. On the other hand, we do not know that all of the Star Sura (53) after verse 22 was written at the same time either. Verses 51-53 appear out of place since address Mohammed personally.
Muslim objection 3: Sura 53:19-21 might have been written much earlier than the Suras which speak of the whisperings of Satan.
Response: Tabari and ibn Sa’ad say they were revealed at the same time as Sura 17:73-75. Nobody today knows for sure when many Qur’anic verses were written. On the other hand, even if it was written earlier, it would not negate what it said. If a devout Muslim really believes the Qur’an, including Suras 17:73-75 and 22:52, then they have to believe that Satan adds things to the Qur’an. John Gilchrist in Muhammed and the Religion of Islam p.120 says, "The other argument is weak in that there is no concrete proof that the first part of Surah 53 refers to the miraj [ascent of Mohammed] which followed the emigration to Abyssinia. As shown already, it almost certainly refers to one of Muhammad’s initial visions, limited by the Qur’an itself to the two he had when the ministry began. Unfortunately one finds that virtually all Muslims arguments of a factual nature against this story are equally weak."
Muslim objection 4: The Satanic verses go against the core teachings of One God that Mohammed consistently taught.
Response: Mohammed has not been proven to be consistent on everything. Remember, Bukhari v.4 no.490 p.317, v.4 no.400 p.267, v.8 no.400 p.266 record that Mohammed was actually bewitched by evil for a period of time. Furthermore, the biographers and others who recorded this were still Muslims, so these historians prove that at least some would follow Mohammed even if he spoke lies.
Muslim objection 5: Many passages in the Qur’an say Mohammed could not say any false sayings, and thus this is incompatible with the interpretation that Satan interjects things. For example,
Sura 10:15b: "Say; It is not for me, Of my own accord, To change it: I follow Naught but what is revealed unto me…"
Sura 41:42: "No falsehood can approach it From before or behind it: It is sent down By One Full of Wisdom Worthy or all Praise."
Sura 15:9: "We have, without doubt, Sent down the Message; And We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption)."
Sura 60:44-46: "If he (Messenger) were to invent any saying in our name, We should certainly have seized him by the right hand and We should then have surely cut off the artery of his heart"
Response: On one hand, it is claimed that Satan, not Mohammed invented the Satanic verses, and protection for the Qur’an does not negate a false teaching slipping in and Allah correcting it. On the other hand, if a Muslim interprets these verses as saying nothing false would ever get in a prophet’s message, then regardless of the Satanic verses, this would be a contradiction of Satan’s whisperings mentioned in the Qur’an.
Also, this is not the only instance of a verse of the Qur’an "disappearing completely" because it was abrogated. Sahih Muslim vol.1:1433 (p.329-330) is an important hadith because it shows that a verse not only was abrogated, but after it was abrogated it disappeared completely. Thus either:
a) The Qur’an on a tablet [in heaven] contained the earlier version, and the later version differs from the tablet. Qur’ans today differ from the heavenly tablet.
b) The Qur’an on a tablet in heaven contained the later version, and the earlier version differs. Thus the original recitation was given as representing the tablet in heaven when in fact that was a lie.
Which is it? The tablet [in heaven] in Sura 85:20-22 presumably is not made out of silly putty.
Muslims Objection 6: Perhaps Tabari collected information uncritically.
Response: While we have no proof of this speculation, the other three biographers also wrote of this. Two of them were definitely earlier than Tabari, so even if Tabari were found to be uncritical, that would not significantly affect anything as we still have the other three. A Muslim might wish all the early biographers of Mohammed were so severely flawed, but multiple sources indicate their accuracy.
In addition, Tabari did not accept everything uncritically. For example, in volume 1 p.532 he relates many Muslim traditions of Adam and Eve that he had learned from the people of the Torah. He quotes many of them, but says that he is cautious about the reliability of these hadiths. (From Barbara Freye Stowasser’s book Woman in the Qur’an, Tradition, and Their Interpretation p.28.)
Sunni Muslim Objection 7: The authoritative hadiths do not directly mention it.
Response: Bukhari hadith vol.6:385 mentions the situation. It is difficult to otherwise explain what there was about this Sura that pagans bowed for this sura, when they bowed for no other. The Qur’an itself also mentions the "whisperings" of Satan.
Sunni Muslim Objection 8: Shaykh al-Albani, in his books on the train of transmitters of traditions, said the evidence of the Satanic verses has a bad chain of transmission (isnad).
Response: http://answering-islam.org/Responses/ Saifullah/sverses.htm says, "Regarding al-Albani, I’m informed that these days al-Albani is discredited badly for being wrong on isnads, he even writes in one book that one is correct, and in another book, he writes that it is wrong! The book Al-Albani Unveiled by Sayf ad-Din Ahmed Ibn Muhammad Amirul Islam gives plenty of examples. The back cover states: This book is an analytical study of one of the foremost Hadith Shaykh’s (Muhammad Nasiruddeen al-Albani) of the modern Islamic Movement known as ‘Salafiya’. The author has clearly demonstrated the contradiction of Al-Albani by recoursing to the original work in Arabic (Tanaqadat al-Albani al-Wadihat), by the well-known Jordanian scholar of Hadith - Shakh Hasan ibn Ali al-Saqqaf."
Muslim Objection 9: Non-Muslims are being critical of Mohammed and Islam.
Response: This event was not made up by non-Muslims, but was documented by Muslims themselves. These devout Muslims had access to earlier sources than Muslims have today. Closing your eyes to something critical of your viewpoint, solely because it is critical of your view, is not compatible with wanting to follow the truth. Since Christians claim to teach the truth, we have a responsibility to point out a false prophet. We do not do this from hate or selfish motives, but out of love and a desire to see Muslims turn from their false teaching, turn to the real Jesus and join us in joy in Heaven with the God of truth.
Where Do You Go From Here?
Muslims themselves have not been agreed whether the Satanic words were originally in the Qur’an.
Alternative 1: What if Mohammed did in fact speak as a prophet about the intercession of the daughters of Allah? Then at the very least, that would make Mohammed for a period of time a false prophet.
Alternative 2: What if Mohammed never did speak the Satanic verses? Then all four early biographers of Mohammed agreed on an error that Mohammed was a false prophet. Some people willfully choose to follow something, even if they believe the leader spoke things of Satan. Even if this were true, what do you do with the Qur’anic verses about the whisperings of Satan Mohammed received?
Regardless, Islam teaches that Allah allows His words to be terribly twisted anyway, and Allah allows his sincere followers to learn false ways as the way of truth. This is because the Qur’an in Sura 43:44-45, indicates that all previous prophets had the same message. In fact, Sura 41:43 says that nothing was sent to Mohammed that was not also sent to earlier prophets. Thus for a Muslim, either
a) Allah allowed His corrupt message prior to this,
b) Or it is the Qur’an that is a corrupted message.
Either way, says Islam, Allah cannot be trusted to preserve his Word from big doctrinal changes.
____________________
Click here for your Black Profile
|
jamal786
Villager
| Joined: | Sunday December 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | London, United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 967 |
| Photo: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
Click here for your Black Profile
Search for Black Sites
|
Posted: Sunday March 27th, 2005 00:44 |
|
"Muslims themselves have not been agreed whether the Satanic words were originally in the Qur’an." (KANOBI)
...you obviously did not read the above!!.. even if all do not agree, the answer is still present!
....Reply to this weak allegation is:
The story is so manifestly absurd and untrue that it ought to have been rejected outright as such and not recorded by the chroniclers and traditionalists. But since some of them have recorded it has often been cited as ground for its genuineness, rather than the obviously discrediting features of the story itself.
Imam Fakhr Ad-Din Ar-Razi correctly points out that those who have critically looked at the story have all rejected it as spurious on the grounds of its conflict with the clear testimony of the Qur’an, the rules governing the genuineness of traditions and the dictates of reason.
The Qur’anic evidence against the genuineness of the story is of three kinds.
There are a number of statements in the Qur’an that show that neither Satan nor anyone else could interfere in the process of coming of the revelation. Nor did the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, ever entertain any intention of making compromise with the unbelieving leaders, nor did he ever interpolate in the text of the revelation.
The passages cited as having been revealed as a sequel to the incident and for reassuring the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, prove to the contrary, showing that he had not made even the slightest move towards making a compromise with the unbelieving leaders.
The internal evidence of Surah An-Najm (53), in connection with the revelation of which the story has been foisted, goes against its spirit and purpose.
THE PASSAGES FROM THE QUR’AN THAT DIRECTLY BELIE THE STORY ARE AS FOLLOWS:
“If he (Messenger) were to invent any saying in Our Name, We should certainly have seized him by the right hand and We should then have surely cut off the artery of his heart"
[Qur’an 60:44-46]
“Say; It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it (the revelation). I follow naught but what is revealed unto me"
[Qur'an 10:15]
“No falsehood can approach it from the front, nor from the rear (i.e. neither directly nor indirectly). It is sent-down from Allah the All-Wise, the All-Praiseworthy.�
[Qur'an 41:42]
“We indeed have sent down the recital (the Qur’an) and indeed are its Protectors (from any interference).�
[Qur'an 15:9]
“In what way (We have revealed it), that We may make your heart firm thereby; and We have dictated it in stages.�
[Qur'an 25:32]
It is seen from the above that the Qur’an repeatedly assures that Allah has protected it against any possibility of being tampered with directly or indirectly, that it is not for the Prophet to change it or add to it anything. If he had done so, Allah’s severe punishment would inevitably and irresistibly have befallen him. These clear and positive statements directly contradict the story, which says that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, of his own accord or being deceived by Satan introduced something into the text of revelation. Not only that. The alleged interpolation violated the fundamental teaching of the Qur’an – monotheism (Tauhid) and thus constituted the offence of shirk which Allah warns elsewhere in the Qur’an that He shall under no circumstances forgive.
The story is thus quite contrary to the specific statements of the Qur’an and also to the tenor and purport of its entire text. As such the story is totally unworthy of any credence. This is not simply from a Muslim’s point of view, but also from true historian’s point of view.
The two passages of the Qur’an that are said to have been revealed as a sequel to the story are as follows:
“Indeed they were about to divert you from what We revealed to you, in order that you forge against Us something else, and in that case they would certainly have taken you as a friend. And had We not made you firm, you would almost have inclined towards them a little; and in that case we would have made you taste the double (punishment) in death; and then you would not have found for you as against Us any helper.�
[Qur'an 17:73-75]
These verses were revealed 11 or 12 years after the call to Prophethood.
“Never did We send a Messenger nor a Prophet before you, but that when he formed an intention Satan threw something in his intention; but Allah cancels what Satan throws in and then makes His sign prevail. Allah is All-knowing, All-Wise.
[Qur'an 22:52]
This verse was revealed during the 1st year of Hijrah.
A little careful look at them would at once show that their texts, far from supporting the story, do in fact contradict it.
The first passage shows that it was the unbelievers who attempted to induce the Prophet to making a compromise with them, not that he ever wanted it. The passage further states that Allah made the Prophet’s heart firm against such attempts of the unbelievers. The emphasis here is on the intensity of the unbelievers’ attempts, and Allah’s special favor upon the Prophet making him immune against such efforts and because of such special favor, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, did not incline towards the unbelievers even a little. Finally the above verse warns that, had the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, been guilty of slight inclination towards the unbelievers’ proposals, he would have been doubly punished by Allah.
It is strange that the orientalists mention the above verses revealed about 8 or 9 years after the alleged incident as assurance from Allah, because during this period so many major events had taken place, including the Hijrah.
The Internal Evidence of Surah An-Najm (53)
The Surah starts emphasizing that,
“He (the Prophet) does not speak out of his desire. It is naught but Wahy (revelation) communicated to him.� In verses 3-4. The Surah declares that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, has not gone astray, nor erred, nor does he speak out of his own desire, but what he gives out is only revelation communicated to him. It is impossible to think that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, would immediately add the alleged two verse within this Surah itself, thus contradicting the very essence of the Surah. Though there are over 15 versions of the allegation, all the versions agree that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, recited the whole of Surah An-Najm on this occasion and prostrated himself at the end of it.
The alleged verses as follows:
“Those are swans exalted. Whose intercession is to be expected.�
These alleged two verses do not fit in any place in the Surah. If we simply insert them after verse 19 and 20 they will read as follows:
“Have you then considered Al-Lat and Al-Uzza (two idols of the pagan Arabs)
[v.19]
And Manat (another idol of the pagan Arabs), the third?
[v.20]
Those are swans exalted. Whose intercession is to be expected.
[???]
Is it for you the males and for Him the females?
[v. 21]
That indeed is a division most unfair
[v.22]
They are but names, which you have named, - you and your fathers- for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow but a guess and that which they themselves desire, whereas there has surely come to the Guidance from their Lord.
[v.23]
Or shall man have what he wishes?
[v.24]
But to Allah belongs the last (hereafter) and the first (the world)�
[v.25]
A simple glance shows that the alleged satanic verses shown in bold above do not fit in any place in the Surah An-Najm. The whole text from verses 19 to the end of the Surah has a unity and continuity on both theme and sequence. There is no giving-in on the question of intercession by anyone; no relaxation of the principle of individual and personal responsibility, no softening down of denunciation of the conduct of the unbelieving leaders and no room given to accommodating their attitudes.
The following additional information should be noted on this insinuation.
The story has come down in about a dozen varying versions and does not have a strong chain of narrators (Isnad). It is technically regarded as Mursal – i.e. its Isnad does not go up beyond the second generation (Tabi`un) after the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him. One of the versions traces back to `Abd Allah Ibn `Abbas as eye-witness, who was born some five years after the alleged event was said to have taken place. Apart from this, all the persons in the Isnad have names who are considered weak, unreliable or unknown.
The report itself suffer from grave differences and disagreements in all the four essential respects, namely:
* The occasion of the incident;
* Nature of the Prophet’s alleged act;
* The wording of the alleged “satanic verses�- as many as 15 different texts;
* The effect or sequel of the alleged incident.
There are reports that say, more significantly, that while the unbelievers heard the alleged “satanic verses�, the believers did not at all hear them. All the versions unanimously show that no objection or uneasiness was expressed by any of the believers at the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, alleged utterance of the verses, nor to his alleged dropping of them subsequently. If such an unusual incident as the giving out of some compromising verses and their subsequent withdrawal had at all taken place, it would have been narrated by some of the many Companions of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him.
`Abdallah Ibn Mas`ud says that Surah An-Najm was the first Surah, which the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, recited in front of a gathering of believers and non-believers at the Ka`bah compound. When he finished it and went into prostration, all those who were present, believers and non-believers also prostrated themselves. It is an acknowledged fact that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and the Muslims could not publicly and in a body perform prayer or recite the Qur’an at the Ka`bah before the conversion of `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, and the revelation of Sura An-Najm took place after his conversion. Conversion of `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, was a great gain to Islam.
The Qur’an has the stunning effect on every non-believing Quraish*te who heard it and their leaders such as `Utbah Ibn Rabi`ah themselves had confessed to this. As such, the non-believers without realizing what they were doing would have gone to prostration as commanded in the last verse of the Surah, together with the Muslims. Since the Quraish*te leaders prostrated themselves or made a show of prostration, they must have been pressed by their followers to explain their act. When they realized what they have done, they would have tried to find a justification for their unintentional act of abiding by the Qur’anic command.
The other fact that needs emphasizing in this connection is that the text of the so-called “satanic verses� was no new composition made on the occasion. It was an old couplet that the Quraish*te pagans used to recite in praise of their goddess while circumambulating the Ka`bah. It is also to be remembered that the unbelievers used to create noise and disturbances whenever the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, or Muslims recited the Qur’an publicly. Therefore, it is very likely that when the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, recited the Surah and mentioned al-Lat and al-`Uzza in the course of his recitation and in a denunciatory strain, some of the Quraish*te unbelievers instantly interrupted and protested by shouting out the couplets. Significantly enough, some versions of the story clearly state that the “satanic verses� were uttered not by the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, but by Satan or some unbelievers, and they specifically state that the Muslims did not hear it.
http://www.islamonline.net/English/In_Depth/mohamed/1424/misconception/article04.shtml
Last edited on Sunday March 27th, 2005 00:47 by jamal786
____________________
Radical Muslim
____________________
www.blacksearch.co.uk - Helping to promote Black African and Caribbean Websites
|
|
|
Current time is 23:05 | Page: 1 2   |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Join the
Blacknet
mailing list
|
|
