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KANOBI
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 03:12 |
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| But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. Deuteronomy 18:20
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jamal786
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 03:45 |
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What do YOU think of the previous two verses?
(Deuteronomy 18:18-19) I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
"A PROPHET... LIKE UNTO THEE?"
In the FIRST place Jesus is NOT like Moses, because, according to You - 'JESUS IS A GOD', but Moses is not God. Is this true?" If Yes: Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses!
SECONDLY, according to You - 'JESUS DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD', but Moses did not have to die for the sins of the world. Is this true?" If "Yes.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses!
THIRDLY, according to You - 'JESUS WENT TO HELL FOR THREE DAYS', but Moses did not have to go there. Is this true?" If: "Y-e-s.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses!
Fouthly, Moses had a father and a mother. Muhummed also had a father and a mother. But Jesus had only a mother, and no human father. Is this true?
Fithly, Moses and Muhummed were born in the normal, natural course, i.e. the physical association of man and woman; but Jesus was created by a special miracle. Jesus is therefore not like Moses, Is this true?
Moses and Muhummed married and begat children, but Jesus remained a bachelor all his life. Is this true?": "Yes.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses.
Moses and Muhummed were accepted as prophets by their people in their very lifetime. No doubt the Jews gave endless trouble to Moses and they murmured in the wilderness, but as a nation, they acknowledged that Moses was a Messenger of God sent to them. And even today, after two thousand years, his people- the Jews, as a whole, have rejected him. Is this true?": "Yes.": THEREFORE JESUS IS NOT LIKE MOSES, BUT MUHUMMED IS LIKE MOSES.
Both Moses and Muhummed died natural deaths, but according to Christianity, Jesus was violently killed on the cross. Is this true?" "Yes.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses.
Moses and Muhummed both lie buried in earth, but according to you, Jesus in heaven. Is this true?" Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses
"I WILL RAISE THEM UP A PROPHET FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN LIKE UNTO THEE......."
The emphasis is on the words- "From among their brethren." Moses and his people, the Jews, are here addressed as a racial entity, and as such their 'brethren' would undoubtedly be the Arabs. You see, the Holy Bible speaks of Abraham as the "Friend of God". Abraham had two wives - Sarah and Hagar. Hagar bore Abraham a son - HIS FIRST-BORN- '......And Abraham1 called HIS SON'S name, which Hagar bare Ishmael.' (Genesis 16:15). 'And Abraham took Ishmael HIS SON......" (Genesis 17:23). 'And Ishmael HIS SON was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.'(Genesis 17:25). Up to the age of THIRTEEN Ishmael was the ONLY son and seed of Abraham, when the covenant was ratified between God and Abraham. God grants Abraham another son through Sarah, named Isaac, who was very much the junior to his brother Ishmael.
If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham, then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. The children of Isaac are the Jews and the Children of Ishmael are the Arabs - so they are BRETHREN to one another. The Bible affirms, 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) SHALL DWELL IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.' (Genesis 16:12). 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) DIED IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN. (Genesis 25:18). The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelites. In like manner Muhummed is from among the brethren of the Israelites because he was a descendant of Ishmael the son of Abraham. This exactly as the prophecy has it- 'FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN'.(Deut.18:18). There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among themselves', but from among their brethren. MUHUMMED THEREFORE WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN!
"MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME"
Furthermore, in the verse 19 of Deuteronomy chapter 18, we have a further fulfilment of the prophecy in Muhummed! Note the words-'.....MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME," In whose name is Muhummed speaking?" I open Yusuf Ali's translation of the Holy Qur'an, at chapter 114- 'Sura Nas', or Mankind - the last chapter, and refer to the formula at the head of the chapter:
"IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL."
And the heading of chapter 113:
..."IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL".
And every chapter downwards 112 , 111, 110.......was the same formula and the same meaning on every page, because the end SURAS (chapters) are short and take about a page each.
And what did the prophecy demand?' ......WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME and in whose name does Muhummed speak? 'IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS MOST MERCIFUL.' The Prophecy is being fulfilled in Muhummed to the letter
Every chapter of the Holy Qur'an except the 9th begin with the formula: IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL.' The Muslim begins his every lawful act with the Holy formula as prophesised in Deutronomy 18:19 that the prophet will speak "MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME". But the Christian doe not ONLY speak in gods name as he begins with the unlawful act: "In the name of the Father, son and holy ghost", and will tell you that jesus would agree with this!!
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jamal786
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 03:49 |
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Now tell me; what do YOU think of:
(Deutronomy 18:20) But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
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KANOBI
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 04:09 |
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| I asked you first
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One Zero Seven
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 12:06 |
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In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...the Best Knower.
In order to be a Prophet "LIKE" Moses, one would have to have circumstances in his life and work that parallel that of Moses...beyond the ordinary human circumstances.
Propeht Muhammad of Arabia (PBUH) was NOT a Prophet like Moses.
Moses was born from a centuries-enslaved people...Muhammad was not.
Moses was commissioned in the very presence of God...Muhammad was not. (The Bible teaches that he saw God "face to face" - Ex. 33:11)
Moses was taught and sent to challenge a mighty king/ruler(Pharaoh/President) who had his people in bondage for 400 years...Muhammad was not.
Moses was given a Helper to keep his community together while he went to meet with God a SECOND time...Muhammad was not.
Moses and his helper (Aaron) were given authority to bring down plagues on his people's oppressors...Muhammad was not.
The list goes on and on. It is clear that despite the greatness of Prophet Muhammad's Commission and Mighty work, he does NOT fulfill the prophecy of a prophet "like Moses".
Who, then, DOES fulfill this prophecy?
Mal. 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Matthew 17:11,12
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things.
But I say unto you, That Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
The Honorable ELIJAH Muhammad.
RM
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One Zero Seven
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 12:34 |
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KANOBI wrote: But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. Deuteronomy 18:20
Yes, and Jesus (like many prophets and apostles) was put to death for speaking, in the name of the One God, all that he was commanded. So, I must ask...
What was the MOTIVE for this post?
RM
Last edited on Saturday March 26th, 2005 12:35 by One Zero Seven
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jamal786
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 12:46 |
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^^I think thats stretching it a bit if you are implying that "elijah" may be elijah muhammad!
Elijah Muhammad brought no new law as did Moses with the commandments and Muhammad with the Quran.
Elijah Muhammad brought no revelation from God. He uses the revelation of Moses and Muhammad.
Elijah Muhammad is not accepted as a prophet as were Moses and Muhammad.
Elijah Muhammad does not speak in the name of god apart when he uses the Quran. The rest of the time he apeaks in the name of a man (WD Fard) who he worships as God.
Moses and Muhammad did not actually see god even though Moses was in his presence and Muhammad ascended to heaven. However, Elijah Muhammad claims that God is a man and came to his house!
Furthermore, if you are quoting Matthew 17:11,12 to say that Elijah has already come (before jesus), then how could he be Elijah Muhammad who was Elijah (or Robert) Poole on October 7, 1897, near Sandersville, Georgia! (after Jesus AND Muhammad)
..This further exemplifies how Muhammad is like Moses, though im also wondering What was the MOTIVE for Obi Wan KANOBI's post?Last edited on Saturday March 26th, 2005 14:06 by jamal786
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KANOBI
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 17:26 |
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But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. Deuteronomy 18:20
Do you completly agree with this statement?
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jamal786
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 18:20 |
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Do you?
Personally, i do not completly agree with anything in the bible unless it is confirmed by the Quran!
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KANOBI
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 18:38 |
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Whats this?
Now tell me about Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat,
The third one, another goddess.
What! For you the males and for him the females!
That indeed is an unfair division.
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One Zero Seven
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 19:50 |
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KANOBI wrote: Whats this?
Now tell me about Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat,
The third one, another goddess.
What! For you the males and for him the females!
That indeed is an unfair division.
Surah 53
19 Have you then considered Lat and 'Uzzi,
20 And another, the third, Manat?
21 Are the males for you and for Him the females?
22 This indeed is an unjust division!
23 They are naught but names which you have named, you and your fathers -- Allah has sent no authority for them. They follow but conjecture and what (their) souls desire. And certainly the guidance has come to them from their Lord.
24 Or shall man have what he wishes?
25 But for Allah is the Hereafter and the former (life).
Surah 4
116 Surely Allah forgives not setting up partners with Him, and He forgives all besides this to whom He pleases. And whoever sets up a partner with Allah, he indeed goes far astray
117 Besides Him they call on nothing but female divinities and they call on nothing but a rebellious devil,
118 Whom Allah has cursed. And he said: Certainly I will take of Your servants an appointed portion;
119 And certainly I will lead them astray and excite in them vain desires and bid them so that they will slit the ears of the cattle, and bid them so that they will alter Allah's creation. And whoever takes the devil for a friend, forsaking Allah, he indeed suffers a manifest loss.
120 He promises them and excites vain desires in them. And the devil promises them only to deceive.
Surah 6
101 And they regard the jinn to he partners with Allah, and He created them, and they falsely attribute to Him sons and daughters without knowledge. Glory be to Him, and highly exalted is He above what they ascribe (to Him)!
Surah 16
57 And they ascribe daughters to Allah. Glory be to Him! And for themselves is what they desire!
58 And when the birth of a daughter is announced to one of them, his face becomes black and he is full of wrath.
59 He hides himself from the people because of the evil of what is announced to him. Shall he keep it with disgrace or bury it (alive) in the dust? Now surely evil is what they judge!
60 For those who believe not in the Hereafter are evil attributes and Allah's are the sublime attributes. And He is the Mighty, the Wise.
Surah 17
39 This is of the wisdom which your Lord has revealed to you. And associate not any other god with Allah, lest you be thrown into hell, blamed, cast away.
40 Has then your Lord preferred to give you sons, and (for Himself) taken daughters from among the angels? Surely you utter a grievous saying.
Surah 37
149 Now ask them whether your Lord has daughters and they have sons?
150 Or did We create the angels females, while they witnessed?
151 Now surely it is of their own lie that they say:
152 Allah has begotten. And truly they are liars.
153 Has He preferred daughters to sons?
154 What is the matter with you? How you judge!
155 Will you not then mind?
156 Or have you a clear authority?
157 Then bring your Book, if you are truthful.
Surah 43
16 Or has He taken daughters to Himself of what He creates and chosen you to have sons?
17 And when one of them is given news of that of which he sets up a likeness for the Beneficent, his face becomes black and he is full of rage.
18 Is one decked with ornaments and unable to make plain speech in disputes (a partner with Allah)?
19 And they make the angels, who are the servants of the Beneficent, females. Did they witness their creation? Their evidence will be recorded and they will be questioned.
20 And they say, If the Beneficent had pleased, we should not have worshipped them. They have no knowledge of this; they only lie.
Surah 52
29 So remind for, by the grace of your Lord you are no soothsayer, nor madman.
30 Or say they: A poet -- we wait for him the evil accidents of time.
31 Say: Wait, I too wait along with you.
32 Or do their understandings bid them this? Or are they an inordinate people?
33 Or say they: He has forged it. Nay, they have no faith.
34 Then let them bring a saying like it, if they are truthful.
35 Or were they created without a (creative) agency? Or are they the creators?
36 Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they are sure of nothing.
37 Or have they the treasures of your Lord with them? Or have they absolute authority?
38 Or have they the means by which they listen? Then let their listener bring a clear authority.
39 Or has He daughters and you have sons?
40 Or ask you a reward from them so that they are over-burdened by a debt?
41 Or possess they the unseen, so they write (it) down?
42 Or do they intend a plot? But those who disbelieve will be the ensnared ones in the plot.
43 Or have they a god other than Allah? Glory be to Allah from what they set up (with Him)
44 And if they were to see a portion of the heaven coming down, they would say: Piled-up clouds!
45 Leave them then till they meet that day of theirs wherein they are smitten with punishment:
46 The day when their struggle will avail them naught, nor will they be helped.
Surah 53
27 Surely those who believe not in the Hereafter name the angels with female names.
28 And they have no knowledge of it. They follow but conjecture, and surely conjecture avails naught against Truth.
29 So shun him who turns his back upon Our Reminder, and desires nothing but this world's life.
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jamal786
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 20:23 |
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Nicely answered 107.
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KANOBI
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 20:25 |
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Did muhammed presume to speak in the name of Allah anything he was not commanded to say? Did muhammed speak in the name of other gods? Do you agree with the penlty for a prophet of this sort?
Last edited on Saturday March 26th, 2005 20:25 by KANOBI
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 21:32 |
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...get to the point! 
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KANOBI
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 21:46 |
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Did muhammed presume to speak in the name of Allah anything he was not commanded to say? Did muhammed speak in the name of other gods? Do you agree with the penlty for a prophet of this sort?
I say Muhammed did these things and should have been put to death by law. At least that should have been the case if he was from amongst the brethren of the Israelites but Muhammed had nothing to do with them but that is another story.
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 21:57 |
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...So NO "Point" then!!....
(Deuteronomy 18:18-19) I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
"A PROPHET... LIKE UNTO THEE?"??
In the FIRST place Jesus is NOT like Moses, because, according to You - 'JESUS IS A GOD', but Moses is not God. Is this true?" If Yes: Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses!
SECONDLY, according to You - 'JESUS DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD', but Moses did not have to die for the sins of the world. Is this true?" If "Yes.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses!
THIRDLY, according to You - 'JESUS WENT TO HELL FOR THREE DAYS', but Moses did not have to go there. Is this true?" If: "Y-e-s.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses!
Fouthly, Moses had a father and a mother. Muhummed also had a father and a mother. But Jesus had only a mother, and no human father. Is this true?
Fithly, Moses and Muhummed were born in the normal, natural course, i.e. the physical association of man and woman; but Jesus was created by a special miracle. Jesus is therefore not like Moses, Is this true?
Moses and Muhummed married and begat children, but Jesus remained a bachelor all his life. Is this true?": "Yes.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses.
Moses and Muhummed were accepted as prophets by their people in their very lifetime. No doubt the Jews gave endless trouble to Moses and they murmured in the wilderness, but as a nation, they acknowledged that Moses was a Messenger of God sent to them. And even today, after two thousand years, his people- the Jews, as a whole, have rejected him. Is this true?": "Yes.": THEREFORE JESUS IS NOT LIKE MOSES, BUT MUHUMMED IS LIKE MOSES.
Both Moses and Muhummed died natural deaths, but according to Christianity, Jesus was violently killed on the cross. Is this true?" "Yes.": Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses.
Moses and Muhummed both lie buried in earth, but according to you, Jesus in heaven. Is this true?" Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses
"I WILL RAISE THEM UP A PROPHET FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN LIKE UNTO THEE......."??
The emphasis is on the words- "From among their brethren." Moses and his people, the Jews, are here addressed as a racial entity, and as such their 'brethren' would undoubtedly be the Arabs. You see, the Holy Bible speaks of Abraham as the "Friend of God". Abraham had two wives - Sarah and Hagar. Hagar bore Abraham a son - HIS FIRST-BORN- '......And Abraham1 called HIS SON'S name, which Hagar bare Ishmael.' (Genesis 16:15). 'And Abraham took Ishmael HIS SON......" (Genesis 17:23). 'And Ishmael HIS SON was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.'(Genesis 17:25). Up to the age of THIRTEEN Ishmael was the ONLY son and seed of Abraham, when the covenant was ratified between God and Abraham. God grants Abraham another son through Sarah, named Isaac, who was very much the junior to his brother Ishmael.
If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham, then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. The children of Isaac are the Jews and the Children of Ishmael are the Arabs - so they are BRETHREN to one another. The Bible affirms, 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) SHALL DWELL IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.' (Genesis 16:12). 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) DIED IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN. (Genesis 25:18). The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelites. In like manner Muhummed is from among the brethren of the Israelites because he was a descendant of Ishmael the son of Abraham. This exactly as the prophecy has it- 'FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN'.(Deut.18:18). There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among themselves', but from among their brethren. MUHUMMED THEREFORE WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN!
"MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME"
The very first revelation of the Quran tell us whose name Muhammad did speak in;
Surah 96. The Clot, Read!
1. Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
2. Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:
3. Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-
4. He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-
5. Taught man that which he knew not.
Furthermore, in the verse 19 of Deuteronomy chapter 18, we have a further fulfilment of the prophecy in Muhummed! Note the words-'.....MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME," In whose name is Muhummed speaking?" I open Yusuf Ali's translation of the Holy Qur'an, at chapter 114- 'Sura Nas', or Mankind - the last chapter, and refer to the formula at the head of the chapter:
"IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL."
And the heading of chapter 113:
..."IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL".
And every chapter downwards 112 , 111, 110.......was the same formula and the same meaning on every page, because the end SURAS (chapters) are short and take about a page each.
And what did the prophecy demand?' ......WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME and in whose name does Muhummed speak? 'IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS MOST MERCIFUL.' The Prophecy is being fulfilled in Muhummed to the letter
Every chapter of the Holy Qur'an except the 9th begin with the formula: IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL.' The Muslim begins his every lawful act with the Holy formula as prophesised in Deutronomy 18:19 that the prophet will speak "MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME".
In contrast to this, the Christian does not ONLY speak in gods name.
...Instead he begins with the unlawful act: "In the name of the Father, son and holy ghost", and will tell you that jesus would agree with this!!
...Now tell me again WHO should be "put to death"?...
...and as it has already been pointed out.. you believe he was put to death for blaspheming!!
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:02 |
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Your reasoning can be extended to include everyone as brethren. Anyway regardless Muhammed broke the law
But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. Deuteronomy 18:20
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:05 |
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| What law was that then?
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KANOBI
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:10 |
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This one
But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. Deuteronomy 18:20
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jamal786
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:12 |
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| So how did he do that then?
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KANOBI
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:25 |
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So you don't know how he broke this Law? bad if true right? Or bible corrupted? (why use then bible then?)
But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. Deuteronomy 18:20
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jamal786
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:33 |
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1. Personally, i do not completly agree with anything in the bible unless it is confirmed by the Quran!
2. IF you have a corroborated point to make then make it!
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Posted: Saturday March 26th, 2005 22:37 |
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When the inhabitants of Mecca heard Muhammad's confess the importance of the ancient goddesses inside the Ka'aba, they immediately revoked their ban on him. Those who had immigrated to Abyssinia (Ethiopia) started to return home after hearing Muhammad's confession and his acceptance in Mecca. But when they arrived, they were shocked to hear that Muhammad had retracted his confession and admitted that he had fallen prey to the whispering of Satan. Thus, today Islam considers Sura an-Najm (Star) 53:19-22 are related to the time when Muhammad spoke the the Satanic Verses.
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