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2deal2
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Posted: Saturday January 27th, 2007 13:27 |
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Reading my local paper The Advertiser, I can't believe that there's these different crews/squads/gangs, etc. fighting each other around South London!  What is going on?
In this week's Croydon Advertiser there was a 4-page report on it. And there was an attack at East Croydon preceded by a stabbing at the local college, which I used to go to! What the hell is happening? The paper was listing gangs like PDC, Don't Say Nothing and others.
So what happening to just having "friends"? I never needed to be in a gang or large group! And yet, those kids will say they don't feel safe if they don't have their mans to "back them up".
Even worse, is the fighting in town centres and anti-social behaviour. The same week there was a stabbing of a schoolkid in Norbury, in Croydon town centre I saw 6 police vans and 2 cars, with plenty of police milling about. I asked what was going on and they said that they were expecting a gang fight. He explained "it's mostly gangs of Black boys fighting each other". I felt so sad and ashamed.
Finally, the Advertiser said that the gangs even film themselves and put the footage up on Youtube and Myspace! I've seen some clips, but I haven't seen any real fights yet - does anyone know where these clips are. Apparently some of them are on a DVD called "South Students, Vol 1" mixed with grime rapping. The footage is incredibly juvenile and stupid. These kids are living in a fantasy massively influenced by US gangsta rap and violent movies. I know that the music and movies are entertainment, but why do they want to live it?
I can't understand why Black boys are fighting each other? What are they fighting for: respect from "the streets"? To boost their ego?
Don't they have anywhere positive to channel their energy?
Last edited on Saturday January 27th, 2007 13:32 by 2deal2
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FredB
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Posted: Saturday January 27th, 2007 14:21 |
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Social groups are simply a normal part of human social behaviour. We are animals of groups generally. Of course given the discrimination against young people when they form groups it is automatically called a gang. But not when older people form groups and in fact nobody is more group concious than older and powerful people.
Violence is common in both male and female groups because young people express their power often via violence in gaining their status and position in the pecking order. Again very natural. Same way there is a pecking order in talent, brains, bueaty or athletic ability etc.
There is more violence amongst the young than the mature and that is across all societies and cultures. But it does not generally last long and cools off as they enter their twenties etc.
In fact the gangs today are far smaller than they were in my day when we would bring four five hundred solidiers to a function as a show of strength. Most communities today are not as cohesive as early immigrant communities so they simply cannot command the numbers and we were as violent if not more so than youngsters today. The technology is what is different.
What is also different is that older people have less control over these young people compared to my day, when older guys had the biggest gangs were more ruthless and experienced and could snap their fingers and all beefs stopped. This does not exist today because the gap amongst generations is much wider than ever. Parents have less control over their kids or older people and plus people are scared of young people unlike my day. You know your father or uncle or other grown men could twist your arse into a shape of a bow, which acted as a detterent. We got men raised by mothers essentially who know nothing about male authority or male fear. Because they can frighten their mothers and women school teachers that becomes their liscence to think they can terrify anyone.
The absence of a strong and wise male pressence makes them uncontrollable.
Groups are crucial in minimising personal exposure to violence and hence why it is rational to belong to a group, but at the same time and me and a bredrin who is about ten years my junior were saying this the other day in a conversation with our women who asked the same thing being women and not knowing about male social life. The down side as I said when moving in a large crew is that the bigger it is the more idiots you will have who will use that to do all kinds of sh*t and drag others into it who have no clue what is going on.
I gave an example of a very shameful incident where I murdered this China man who thought he was Bruce Lee who was shaping up to some of our boys..I was in group of about 20 of us and at the back and not realising what was going on other than this China boy been watching too many Kungfu movies and looked like he wanted to go on with so stuff. I just rushed him from the back and almost knocked him the f**k out and left him on the floor. Only for somone to say Fred run beast boy ah come..Only after we ran did I find out one of these f**king clowns had only robbed the Chinese guy and those at the back did not have a clue.
That is one of the BIG DOWNSIDES of being part of a crew. Wankers create beef and bring it down to everyone who has to then represent regardless if you had nothing to do with it because if their boys see you they ain't asking questions or asking for papers. My younger bredrin gave exaclty the same type of example of being chased by police and he don't know what the f**k he is running for becaues he didn't do anything.
So its a double edge sword. Can't do without a good crew, while at the same time if you ain't sharp a crew will engineer you losing your life for jack.
FB
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Twistedsista
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Posted: Saturday January 27th, 2007 14:40 |
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THese gangs exist becsuse they have nothing better to do, then comes peer pressure and what ideals and values they have. If they get their values from the wrong person, well a recipee for disaster. A large part of this that families are not able to take the time out with their children to support and teach them. If that love and stability is not at home, They can always find it else where. Most likely in a gang unfortunately.
Going on from that the gang gets its belief system from what is shown in the black media being that the aterial is the be al and end all...........there you have it
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Twistedsista
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Posted: Saturday January 27th, 2007 14:40 |
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THese gangs exist becsuse they have nothing better to do, then comes peer pressure and what ideals and values they have. If they get their values from the wrong person, well a recipee for disaster. A large part of this that families are not able to take the time out with their children to support and teach them. If that love and stability is not at home, They can always find it else where. Most likely in a gang unfortunately.
Going on from that the gang gets its belief system from what is shown in the black media being that the material is the be al and end all...........there you have it
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Black_Power
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Posted: Saturday January 27th, 2007 17:48 |
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fred.
Ive found that family is the best crew you could ever have.
in all my scapes and sh*t that ive been in when the so called "bad boys" have lost there bottle its been family members who have been there to back it...and you know when one of your own is in danger then you gonna go hard on the enemy
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FredB
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Posted: Saturday January 27th, 2007 18:06 |
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BP agreed on that is why I love the small island flex and why we use to do Jamaicans boys ugliness or particular loud mouth ones. In small island villages almost everybody is family and why you mine who you f**k or want to because that is warfare from there. Could be blood and don't know. But my teacher said to me in school Fred how comes you have so many cousins and family.
No. Only a few were blood cousins and the most hard core as you suggested. But the others were like blood. Their mothers and fathers were your parents friends from school and like family and some even closer. The live in the same village back home for generations and grand father and grand mothers were friends or use to check each other when young.
So if it kicked off we walk with muscle and its like blood. That is why our boys never ever grass to police or talk in station and better to hold whatever sentence they threaten you with than talk. Because it is not strangers but your people and can you imagine your mother and father hear you give up the son of one of their long time peeps from back home. Nah just hold whatever is going to come.
So same flex. But if you have a big family like me there are as many f**kries and weak heart boys in their as solidiers. So I got bredrins who I trust far more than certain family and if for them man would be in lock down long time. Two of my JA bredrin save me from bird because they would not give me up after I almost take out a boys kidney and give it back to him in a plastic bag. They were prepared to take the sentence until one of the police witnesses said it was not them who done the deed
Have you seen that RAC advert with Lennox Lewis and one of his body guards? The massive one by the car..That is my yardie Bredrin right there. Save me from a sentence. Diehard solider and absolutely fearless and a fellow black belt times ten and we use to train together almost every day. That is why he is protecting Lennox.
So yeah blood is blood, but bredrin can be superior and more trusted soliders from my experience.
Peace.
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wifeable
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Posted: Saturday January 27th, 2007 18:15 |
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omg, i live in croydon..oh dear.
just yesterday i was catching a bus into Croydon around 10.45pm and a group of "youths" came walking along and sat down next to me immediately i felt concerned, i knew exactly what was gonna happen.
soon one threw a glass bottle across the road and it smashed, his friend asked "Ai man why you doing that sh*t" he replied aggressively " why not man". I then decided to move away- and just in time. Beacause moments later they were fighting eachother, dunno if it was the same two but there was a big fight. They were throwing eachother in the main busy road! whilst the other boys watched!
a old white man walked past and just steared confused, i felt hurt and ashamed.
at this point i was jaw dropped and mortified, the bus came, they stopped and went about their business, they went upstairs and started to fight and scream again asif someone was being murdered, then got off two stops later and bopped along
WTF!
what was the point in that? they were so angry and aimless, just out for no reason a group of about 6 in the freezing cold.
these young men are a disgrace, I see so many young black boys out on road 12.00am at night, 14 15 years old in the freezing cold months- where are their parents?
black mothers and the fathers that are actually there, are totally unconcious, why are their sons out getting stabbed and committing crime at the age of 14, i can only blame the parents. I know that my son would not have a hope in hell of becoming a thug because he'd know from day his mothers and fathers discipline was the only gang banging he'd encounter.
if you are a useless parent consider yourself on a countdown to your sons life or his imprisonment. Its all about sacrifices, i have no children but i am already prepared to make them. invest in activities for them football, music, basketball, drama clubs, church whatever it takes- just keep them off the street
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wifeable
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Posted: Saturday January 27th, 2007 18:24 |
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Last edited on Saturday January 27th, 2007 18:28 by wifeable
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FredB
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Posted: Saturday January 27th, 2007 18:33 |
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Wifeable. I hear a lot of women say this and it is unrealistic. You cannot hide your children or live in constant fear or hope that they will not meet such trouble. You better prepare them to know how to handle it and such situations.
One thing is being an aggressor, the other is being a punk who everyone can impose themselves on. Two different things. But a well brought up child with strong values will make the right choices of when to fight and when not and where to do it. For example not in the street as you described.
My parents would die if they heard things my brothers and I did, but we would probably be dead or crippled etc if we didn't.
It's about balance and context. You can't hide your kids because I worked places where bad boys in numbers reach and come to nice youth clubs to prey on those types of kids.
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wifeable
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Posted: Saturday January 27th, 2007 18:54 |
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Okay FB, its true you cant hide your boys away from life, but im at a loss as to why so many are in gangs and are outside at 11pm at night with probably no money in their pocket, in big groups. Why aren't their parents controlling them? Yes they will get up to all sorts during school and the day time but most of these little thugs do their worst work at night- as often reported by the papers.
i simply mean parents should give their boys more things to do other than school and gangs, to give them hope and a passion rather than getting into crime early. A good football club or sports team can offer all of the lessons life has to offer without being killed or ending up in jail. i.e team work, friendship, respect, discipline, self control, responsibily etc
just seems like when you see a group of ten black boys acting like animals at 11pm in the freezing cold outside a chicken shop or train station, doing nothing apart from being anti social thats 20 mothers and fathers who just dont give a damn.... get them off the streets simple
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FredB
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Posted: Saturday January 27th, 2007 19:16 |
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Wifeable.Agreed. Hear is my wife's explanation and she is well qualified to make it given what she has observed too often a first hand. Too many of the mothers because these are regretably largely single parent kids. We got schools around here with 90 percent black single parent and that is London borough wide. Remember when Stephen Lawernce went to his new schoolo they wanted to rush him because he had two parents and viewed as well off and posh. He was neither actually.
Look as my wife said by the time those boys get in their teens they are no longer the little bundle of joy and their mothers just want them off their hands ASAP and don't care as long as they are fed or clothed. I remember the programme The Problem with Black men and they asked one of the young brothers 17 doing exactly the same thing you mentioned .where's his mother. He said she has a new man and is doing her own thing which my wife repeats this like a scripture from what she has seen.
Hey black women are blessed. They have kids early and still have their looks and body and stuff in their thirties and are ready for their second wind and a new man. Hence why you see those kids packed up in those greasy sh*t places buying chicken and chips.
Sis time does not allow me to go into stuff because I am doing my housework. But I saw my sister in law dump her child while we were on holiday and as god is my witness if I was that boys father I would be doing a murder charge right now. As she said she needed her time and just booked herself in a hotel telling nobody and basically dumped her son on the family with not even a bye or leave. How he was going to eat or whatever was not her business. He was with family and somebody would feed him. Now me I won't just to make the point but he is not my blood.
They want to have thier own time and life and fun at the time these kids need more parenting not less. Hence they are on the street not at home..
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Bredder Tukoma
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Posted: Saturday January 27th, 2007 19:20 |
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Boy Fred your on point about wankers in your crew or those with big mouths and nothing else getting you into situations which you could of done without but have to defend because you are now there. Its one of things that will make a wise man leave a big crew and just deal with his bonified bredrens on a more low key level..because as you said certain man will get you killed or banged up for an unrighteous sityuation. Usually it the most low key/ cool temperament brother you can rely on in a fight situation. When sh*t kicks off you know who your friends are and a different level of respect is earned mutually.
Back in the day my crew was primarily around music/ sound system / like 1000s of other black youth/ also a certain community existed where the immediate brothers in your neighborhood would be the ones you rave/ check gal/ get work for/ etc. No point having your boy child at 14/15 and getting robbed/ beat up/ coming to your nice respectable African concious youth club.. where unsavoury and ignorant boys will set for..rob their phone/ take their money/ and mark them for sport. Better be able to fight or run if need be/ but do either well. Thankfully these 14 year old are not using guns yet which changes the whole strategy. You can always practice against attacks with a wooden knife...
Its a fine line preparing a boy child for war and being able to defend themselves physically and by their general confidence and the way they carry themselves. And not as a by-product give them a pechant for solving conflicts by violent means. Even a six year old boy has to learn those lessons otherwise he will be prayed on. "Sometimes son you got to buss people's head to stop them bothering you.." hard to explain to mothers sometimes but its the ugly reality. Especially the way these schools are the total lack of discipline is unbelievable.
Young boys like to flex with young boys. The more the better. So at 14/15/16/17/18 you will always have crews of young men who want to test their new found powers. Best you give your son the skills to be able to deal with the tests that will come. Ideally to solve conflicts before they start. Thankfully the young girl ( pretending to be boys) group culture is in its infancy in the UK.
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FredB
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Posted: Saturday January 27th, 2007 19:56 |
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@BT said 'Boy Fred your on point about wankers in your crew or those with big mouths and nothing else getting you into situations which you could of done without but have to defend because you are now there.
Bro I only talk what I know from reality and have lived first hand. That is why big crews always breakdown like you said. Certain bone fide brothers go one way and leave the rest. See them in ten years time and smile knowing you made the right choice.
Boy have to disappoint you. I received a paper by Professor Gus John which I read yesterday on the train. Bruv when my man outlines what is happening to black girls in places like Nottingham, parts of Birmingham, Manchester etc you can see they are getting thugged out like man and involved in violence and all kinds of sh*t. Really hits home hard. If we accept boys are a very complex phenomenon for a mother who has never been a man, but not their f**king daughters for god sake.
Yep girls begining to run wild and go bad same way. But I remember telling off my sister in law when she was dissing young black men and I told her it is by the grace of god she has a daughter and too blind to see how that girl is already going off the rails in terms of basic manners and decency.
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theonethatstands
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Posted: Saturday January 27th, 2007 20:28 |
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You dudes are lucky to have big families to back you up and that.
When I was growing up I had no fam, and it was just me my mum and sis. The sad thing is is that when I got to about 10 I had to toughen up to protect my mum from people that prey on my fam (You know how scummy some people are). I used to have to protect my fam on a regular basis with no back up from cousins, brothers or dad.
Lets just say it makes you very very tough. You learn how to look after yourself even if you are fighting gangs, groups of men etc. It is not nice at all, in fact I wish things could be different.
Having said that I am always a man of honour, who has been respected by different people because of my honesty and respect for people, regardless of colour, creed etc.
I would never ever ever rush someone or racially abuse someone or start or someone for no reason etc. So I have a good reputation. Helps a lot. Best to be feared and liked
I had a lot of people hate me at school, and in my ends because I was 'different' or nerdy, so it wasn't till I was older that I built up a crew. Some of them boys is like brothers to me, but some are rats that stabbed me in the back.
Anyway, I reckon it must be good to have fam to back you up, it is not fun being the way tings are for me. On the plus side it made me pretty tough. Years of different martial arts, weights, chi training etc.
Your right about the crew. If your crew do something bad it brings you some very very bad karma your way. Also I remember when we had some beef with some doormen that some boys in the crew had started and I was pissed cos I had tried very hard to avert the situation. in the end I didn't get involved as I didn't want to do a stretch for murder or nutting, and I distanced myself after that.
I envy my missus. She has a 500 strong family in London. When some Irish travellers racially abused her cousin, dozens of them turned up in cars for a fight. I always had to build up my rep myself.
Anyway, I was lecturing some sensitive brother who is about to become a teenager on how to survive the rough secondary he is going to, plus the brother lives in a bad area and is inevitably going to get involved in that world that so many young black men become a part of.
I told him to never be a p***y, and that he needs to learn to fight. I told him to make friends with other people with principles and honour, but to avoid those people that do what I would consider 'unrighteous' behaviour. I also warned him you gotta stay street and friends with certain pps so as to not get jumped, but keep your eyes on you education so you can make something of yourself
Word
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