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Sooofresh
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Posted: Monday January 8th, 2007 08:02 |
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well this is how i see it
If a black man likes ligth skinned or white then i would rather he stays in that route rather than be FORCED to date black women even though he is *pro-black militant*
example...Martin Luthre Kings, loved his white woman, he had a white girlfriend and embarked in several affairs with white woman while married, now because of his * pro-black militant civial right clap trap* day job, he felt he needs a front and hence married a black women ( light skinned may i add  ), however because of his philandering and love of his pork, not only did he hurt his remarkable black wife ( whom for mad reason stuck by him), but he was seen as a jackass by many in inner circle who knew of his affairs. Same with the black panthers, may so called pro-millitant * fight the power * clap trap and many had white girlfriends, even though they made them wear Daskishis......also the public enemy lead flavor flav, all * fight the power* yet he lusts after white women.
all fraudsters, hence i am not fooled by the * pro millitant* clap trap, however we shoudl not force and enforce guilt on black men who wnat to be with white or light ONLY......let them be, let them be, Africa is a very big you know! plenty good black men out their!
I say never mind Alice Walker, watch out for the Pro millitant clap trap
Ciao!
Last edited on Monday January 8th, 2007 08:04 by Sooofresh
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Judge J
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Posted: Monday January 8th, 2007 11:41 |
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WOAH What is going on here . Since when is Sanaa Lathan a lightskin woman. Be serious people.
She is nearly the same skin shade as me.Dam
Last edited on Monday January 8th, 2007 12:02 by Judge J
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Black_Power
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Posted: Monday January 8th, 2007 11:46 |
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lol people will take any opportunity to plug their issues on here
cmon now you know the score
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Prince Hakeem
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Posted: Monday January 8th, 2007 18:29 |
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Gmahogany. wrote: Prince Hakeem wrote: @Gmahogany
So you don't think there's a danger of assuming that any brotha ('fist raising types' or not) with a light skinned woman is with her because of her hue?
I just think some of us need to be careful when we make these remarks because I've heard many evaluative comments passed at certain brothas because their woman happens to be lightskinned - even if she has natural hair. Because of that same reason I've known of brothas to deliberately shy away from seeking light skinned women because of things like this.
Yes, PH, I do think that danger exists, but the reason it exists is because it has a BASIS, in truth. It's like some of the whites I've met since I've lived in the Deep South. Many of them stay pissed off because there is the ASSUMPTION that all whites in the South are racist, KKK members. They feel like people from other places, Black and white, conclude that they are all racist and ignorant, without knowing them personally. You know what I tell them? It's not fair, but it has basis. If the ones among u who AREN'T like that, hadn't let the ones who ARE like that, run sh*t for so long, and project that image to the world(which means that there were more of u like that than not, apparently, or either the ones who weren't like that, were satisfied for that image to go out to the world for many years), you wouldn't be dealing with those unfair generalizations and perceptions NOW.
It's like the scene from Don't Be a Menace, we were discussing earlier. It's not JUST Black women who notice this phenomenon(white and by extension light, is better), but Black men who we would describe as self haters ALSO peep it and use it as comedy fodder, white men peep it and use it as comedy fodder, as well. There was a fat, unattractive white male comedian on BET's comic view, one time who did a joke. He said: "What's up with Black men? They pass over beautiful Black women to go after white women, that even I, DON'T WANT". All the sisters were laughing hysterically, while the bros in the room looked embarrased. The moral of the story is, EVERYBODY can't be having a collective hallucination. If Black women, white men, white women, and some "self hating" Black men are all noticing the same thing, there is a problem. THe problem won't get solved by asking everyone to stop noticing or talking about the problem. The problem will get solved when those guilty of the behavior(they know who they are), tighten up their acts. Once that happens, people will be able to date whomever they desire without a whole bunch of stuff being read into it, one way or the other. Until then, the innocent, necessarily get painted with the same brush as the guilty. THems the breaks, as they say.
OK.....in essence EVERY stereotype/assumption has some basis in fact, but couldn't that also be because the things we come out with based on emotionalism perpetuates those dangers I mentioned?
I'm not saying we should stop talking about the problem, but at the same time making blanket generalisations doesn't help the issue either. It's not just brothas who have this issue because from what I remember as a little kid, the jheri curl Prince look was desired by many women back in the 80s. It's because of this why many of our people feel the need to tread on eggshells instead of just being their true selves.
Also I don't see how people who aren't like that can do a thing to stop those who are, seriously what can an individual do if the next person only chases after someone with a lighter hue? It's self defeating to solely focus on the negative while overlooking the positive and finding ways to increase the positivity....and let's face it, it's easier and convenient to dwell on the negative even if the overwhelming majority of those with that mentality were to tighten up their acts tomorrow. We need to stop giving a Father U C King what crakkkas think since their mentality is on a totally different plane to Africans and deal with this issue ourselves.
We can ill afford to adopt the "oh well that's just the way it is" attitude because all that's going to do is cause more unnecessary resentment between the genders and seeing how this is a problem with many Africans from Brixton to Bed Stuy we need to start being more positive so that in a hundred years time our descendants aren't engaging in the same tit for tat nonsense we're doing now.
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Gmahogany.
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Posted: Monday January 8th, 2007 18:55 |
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Prince Hakeem wrote: Gmahogany. wrote: Prince Hakeem wrote: @Gmahogany
So you don't think there's a danger of assuming that any brotha ('fist raising types' or not) with a light skinned woman is with her because of her hue?
I just think some of us need to be careful when we make these remarks because I've heard many evaluative comments passed at certain brothas because their woman happens to be lightskinned - even if she has natural hair. Because of that same reason I've known of brothas to deliberately shy away from seeking light skinned women because of things like this.
Yes, PH, I do think that danger exists, but the reason it exists is because it has a BASIS, in truth. It's like some of the whites I've met since I've lived in the Deep South. Many of them stay pissed off because there is the ASSUMPTION that all whites in the South are racist, KKK members. They feel like people from other places, Black and white, conclude that they are all racist and ignorant, without knowing them personally. You know what I tell them? It's not fair, but it has basis. If the ones among u who AREN'T like that, hadn't let the ones who ARE like that, run sh*t for so long, and project that image to the world(which means that there were more of u like that than not, apparently, or either the ones who weren't like that, were satisfied for that image to go out to the world for many years), you wouldn't be dealing with those unfair generalizations and perceptions NOW.
It's like the scene from Don't Be a Menace, we were discussing earlier. It's not JUST Black women who notice this phenomenon(white and by extension light, is better), but Black men who we would describe as self haters ALSO peep it and use it as comedy fodder, white men peep it and use it as comedy fodder, as well. There was a fat, unattractive white male comedian on BET's comic view, one time who did a joke. He said: "What's up with Black men? They pass over beautiful Black women to go after white women, that even I, DON'T WANT". All the sisters were laughing hysterically, while the bros in the room looked embarrased. The moral of the story is, EVERYBODY can't be having a collective hallucination. If Black women, white men, white women, and some "self hating" Black men are all noticing the same thing, there is a problem. THe problem won't get solved by asking everyone to stop noticing or talking about the problem. The problem will get solved when those guilty of the behavior(they know who they are), tighten up their acts. Once that happens, people will be able to date whomever they desire without a whole bunch of stuff being read into it, one way or the other. Until then, the innocent, necessarily get painted with the same brush as the guilty. THems the breaks, as they say.
OK.....in essence EVERY stereotype/assumption has some basis in fact, but couldn't that also be because the things we come out with based on emotionalism perpetuates those dangers I mentioned?
I don't think so, in this instance. The reason some brothers in the past and now, go light instead of white is BECAUSE, for the most part, they would get a pass from other Blacks, including Black women. THat little strategy worked because they knew most of us make a distinction between light skin Black women and white women. They WERE given the benefit of the doubt, in most instances. THe only time they are not, is when they say some incriminating sh*t, that makes their REAL views obvious, or when they take it apon themselves to lecture others about it, a al Mos DEf. Other than that, most of us have nothing to say about it, until they go WHITE, that is. They know this, and CYNICALLY use it against us.
I'm not saying we should stop talking about the problem, but at the same time making blanket generalisations doesn't help the issue either. It's not just brothas who have this issue because from what I remember as a little kid, the jheri curl Prince look was desired by many women back in the 80s. It's because of this why many of our people feel the need to tread on eggshells instead of just being their true selves. Agree that blanket generalizations are problematic, but again, at the same time necessary and pragmatic, as it's hard to go case by case for what 40 or 50 million people are doing. Your comment about the 80's speaks for itself. The fact that u can narrow it to a brief time in the 80's makes it INTRINSICALLY different than the exaltation of light skinned Black women that has gone on for a couple of centuries,now. Besides that, even for that brief little FAD of light skin bros being in, non light skin bros are STILL salty and trying to recuperate from the effects, so what does that let u know?
Also I don't see how people who aren't like that can do a thing to stop those who are, seriously what can an individual do if the next person only chases after someone with a lighter hue? It's self defeating to solely focus on the negative while overlooking the positive and finding ways to increase the positivity....and let's face it, it's easier and convenient to dwell on the negative even if the overwhelming majority of those with that mentality were to tighten up their acts tomorrow. We need to stop giving a Father U C King what crakkkas think since their mentality is on a totally different plane to Africans and deal with this issue ourselves.
Agree wholeheartedly about not being able to stop people from chasing after whomever they choose. We do have the power however, to call it what it is, and not allow them bamboozle us into not believing what we see with our own eyes. Also agree about the cracker comment. My only reason for mentioning what the fat, unattractive white dude said was to disabuse people of this notion that it's ONLY Black women who notice this because we are hating on light skin women. A cross section of people notice it, independent of each other, was my point.
We can ill afford to adopt the "oh well that's just the way it is" attitude because all that's going to do is cause more unnecessary resentment between the genders and seeing how this is a problem with many Africans from Brixton to Bed Stuy we need to start being more positive so that in a hundred years time our descendants aren't engaging in the same tit for tat nonsense we're doing now.
I'm all for positivity when possible, but that IS THE WAY IT IS. If I come across 7 pug nosed dogs on 7 different days, and they all bite me, sooner or later, I'm going to form a generalization about pug nosed dogs, and make necessary decisions in reference to them. That's the way the human brain works. Only a retarded person continues to treat each new pug nosed dog like a NEW and Unique event, even after being attacked by them continously, and I may be underestimating retarded folks, even THEY will pick up on the pattern after a while and adjust, it may just take longer.
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Peacemaker
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Posted: Monday January 8th, 2007 21:09 |
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SANAA LATHAN....is she sexy or what???
Her eyes are too far apart for my liking, never a good thing when your face is shaped like a block of cheese.
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*$HaNnY_Bu*
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Posted: Monday January 8th, 2007 21:45 |
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Prince Hakeem wrote: She's what.
LOL!
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*$HaNnY_Bu*
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Posted: Monday January 8th, 2007 21:45 |
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Last edited on Monday January 8th, 2007 21:46 by *$HaNnY_Bu*
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chi
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Posted: Tuesday January 9th, 2007 12:50 |
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....I still dont see what is so white about Sanaa....to say she looks European is an overstretch (please can you piont it out). To say that a black man is with a light skinned Black woman because he doesn't like Black women is just madness....it is that he likes a certain type of Black woman,black men who dont date Black women, dont generally date women with two Black parents, mixed race at a stretch, but not a Black woman who has a light skin shade.
I dont see what is so wrong about even liking a skin tone like Sanaa's, if you look at it, there is no reason to consider it ugly or particularly unattractive IMO........its warm, clear and healthy looking, why should people be forced or feel like they have to consider it a turnoff or even a turn on?
Can someone please explain why it is almost required that it be a turnoff to a man, if he is not to be considered a self hater?
Let me get this straight, in an "ideal" world Black men would only ever find dark skin attractive?
I have never seen a White woman with her skin tone....have you?
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lilthuggy
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Posted: Tuesday January 9th, 2007 13:42 |
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FredB wrote: Gamahogny said :
' It is possible that in almost 70 years on this earth, Quincy Jones just COINCIDENTALLY never found a Black woman that he HAPPENED to be attracted to, and only found white women that he felt drawn to or connected to enough to either date/f**k/marry(and he's dealt with SCORES of women in all of those capacities).
Now that's what I am talking about
Lilthuggy said:
'It's like when you see alot of these black political leaders being pro-militant black but they have the highiest lightiest most white looking woman on their arms'
Oh you know Not concious enough me thinks...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Huh? I never said that, it was Lilsouful1.
Please refrain from mixing people up in the future.
Last edited on Tuesday January 9th, 2007 13:43 by lilthuggy
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Gmahogany.
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Posted: Tuesday January 9th, 2007 14:01 |
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chi wrote: ....I still dont see what is so white about Sanaa....to say she looks European is an overstretch (please can you piont it out). To say that a black man is with a light skinned Black woman because he doesn't like Black women is just madness....it is that he likes a certain type of Black woman,black men who dont date Black women, dont generally date women with two Black parents, mixed race at a stretch, but not a Black woman who has a light skin shade.
I dont see what is so wrong about even liking a skin tone like Sanaa's, if you look at it, there is no reason to consider it ugly or particularly unattractive IMO........its warm, clear and healthy looking, why should people be forced or feel like they have to consider it a turnoff or even a turn on?
Can someone please explain why it is almost required that it be a turnoff to a man, if he is not to be considered a self hater?
Let me get this straight, in an "ideal" world Black men would only ever find dark skin attractive?
I have never seen a White woman with her skin tone....have you?
Chi,
I don't think anyone is saying that a BLack man who dates light skinned women is AUTOMATICALLY a self hater. I know that's not what I'm saying. I don't even think that a Black man who happens to find a PARTICULAR white woman attractive is necessarily a self hater. What people are commenting on is the fact that there are many Black men historically and currently who DO date light skinned women only because they view them as closer to white and therefore superior in beauty. How do we know this? Several ways, some of them will TELL u that is the case. Like the dude Black PantherEldridge CLeaver talked about in his book Soul on Ice, who said: A white woman is automatically beautiful, even if she has 1 strand of hair on her head and no teeth in her mouth. She is beautiful BECAUSE she is white". Cleaver wasn't just saying that to talk about some random dude, he was saying that because that was the PREVAILING feeling among many Black men(even in so called conscious circles, and he was commenting on that,btw he wasn't even excluding himself from that psychology, as evidenced by the sister he married-Kathleen Cleaver, warrior like as all get out, but very much resembled a white woman suprise suprise. Why folks are trying to act like this phenomenon is a figment of people's imagination is beyond me.
Many of this ilk deal with light skinned chicks up and until they get the balls or the financial status to UPGRADE to a white woman,(a la OJ Simpson)even if the upgrade is really a downgrade,a la OJ Simpson,lol, so much so that it's not uncommon to hear light skin sisters complain or worry about when they will get traded in for the REAL prize....Miss Anne,lol.
Your question about the ideal world is interesting to me. It implies that because we are commenting on the fact that the real world EXALTS white and light skin above all else, and equates brown and dark hues to inferior status, we somehow are trying to IMPOSE a love for brown and dark hues and are the ones causing conflict/divisiveness, not the people who set up and perpetuate the white/light is right agenda. They haven't been imposing or ramming THAT beauty standard/agenda down our throats all this time, that centuries long agenda has never caused bad feeling or conflict,lol.
It's like when Black folks finally started asserting that Jesus could have been Black and depicting him that way, all of a sudden white folks and some Tom Negroes started saying: "What difference does it make what color he was?, his blood was red and he died for our sins, blah blah blah" It's mighty convenient that they never saw fit to ask that question during the 500 years that Jesus was EXCLUSIVELY being portrayed as Blond haired and blue eyed(not to mention the real life agenda and effects it had on crackers world domination). Now that he's being depicted as a N****r, all of a sudden mofos have an epiphany about how race and skin tone don't matter, and wanna sing We Are The Word,lol. Pure Balderdash. Assigning a race to Jesus wasn't a problem before because they BENEFITTED from it. They are full of sh*t. THEY made his race an issue, not us. The fact that we FINALLY got enough sense to counteract some of their bullsh*t, does not make us guilty/racist/petty or any of the other assorted bullsh*t they try to saddle us with.
As far as Sanaa, I totally agree. There is nothing European about her to me,there is nothing unusual or uncommon about her skin tone. she is just getting caught up in the madness that ensues from all of the psychological issues that result from years of having the European beauty ideal FORCED on us. It renders us incapable of just appreciating beauty in all its hues among ourselves. The funny thing is, ultimately both light and darker skinned sisters lose. A darker skinned sister can't just be good looking she's got to be "good looking for a darker skinned person "if we're able to perceive her as good looking AT ALL, a light skinned sister can't just be good looking, she's got be good looking BECAUSE she looks more like some non specific, random white woman,(even if she doesn't really look like a white woman). As in the case of the Jesus depiction, skin color/tone has been made POLITICAL, it has been tied to things OTHER than just aestethics. The horse was let out of the barn, long ago. We're just responding to it, that's all.
Last edited on Tuesday January 9th, 2007 14:13 by Gmahogany.
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chi
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Posted: Tuesday January 9th, 2007 14:54 |
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Gmahogany. wrote: chi wrote: ....I still dont see what is so white about Sanaa....to say she looks European is an overstretch (please can you piont it out). To say that a black man is with a light skinned Black woman because he doesn't like Black women is just madness....it is that he likes a certain type of Black woman,black men who dont date Black women, dont generally date women with two Black parents, mixed race at a stretch, but not a Black woman who has a light skin shade.
I dont see what is so wrong about even liking a skin tone like Sanaa's, if you look at it, there is no reason to consider it ugly or particularly unattractive IMO........its warm, clear and healthy looking, why should people be forced or feel like they have to consider it a turnoff or even a turn on?
Can someone please explain why it is almost required that it be a turnoff to a man, if he is not to be considered a self hater?
Let me get this straight, in an "ideal" world Black men would only ever find dark skin attractive?
I have never seen a White woman with her skin tone....have you?
Chi,
I don't think anyone is saying that a BLack man who dates light skinned women is AUTOMATICALLY a self hater.
I actually think there are people here who are saying exactly that, you may not be, but nobody speaks for all.
I know that's not what I'm saying. I don't even think that a Black man who happens to find a PARTICULAR white woman attractive is necessarily a self hater. What people are commenting on is the fact that there are many Black men historically and currently who DO date light skinned women only because they view them as closer to white and therefore superior in beauty.
And in turn you cant find Sanaa attractive/sexy without being a self hater. Thats the thing that triggered those responses to her, nothing to do with anyone exclusively dating light women, but a suggestion from a poster that Sanaa is sexy in his opinion, and because she is light or not dark, other posters reacted to that suggestion.....thats what happened.
How do we know this? Several ways, some of them will TELL u that is the case. Like the dude Black PantherEldridge CLeaver talked about in his book Soul on Ice, who said: A white woman is automatically beautiful, even if she has 1 strand of hair on her head and no teeth in her mouth. She is beautiful BECAUSE she is white". Cleaver wasn't just saying that to talk about some random dude, he was saying that because that was the PREVAILING feeling among many Black men(even in so called conscious circles, and he was commenting on that,btw he wasn't even excluding himself from that psychology, as evidenced by the sister he married-Kathleen Cleaver, warrior like as all get out, but very much resembled a white woman suprise suprise. Why folks are trying to act like this phenomenon is a figment of people's imagination is beyond me.
I think we both know that there are some people who think White women are the bees knees, what does that have to do with a man who likes a BLACK WOMAN who looks IMO NOTHING like a White woman?
Many of this ilk deal with light skinned chicks up and until they get the balls or the financial status to UPGRADE to a white woman,(a la OJ Simpson)even if the upgrade is really a downgrade,a la OJ Simpson,lol, so much so that it's not uncommon to hear light skin sisters complain or worry about when they will get traded in for the REAL prize....Miss Anne,lol.
Not me darling..........I dont see myself as a WW stand in, I look nothing like a White woman, and fella's who really want one, are not even attracted to me.
Your question about the ideal world is interesting to me. It implies that because we are commenting on the fact that the real world EXALTS white and light skin above all else, and equates brown and dark hues to inferior status, we somehow are trying to IMPOSE a love for brown and dark hues and are the ones causing conflict/divisiveness, not the people who set up and perpetuate the white/light is right agenda. They haven't been imposing or ramming THAT beauty standard/agenda down our throats all this time, that centuries long agenda has never caused bad feeling or conflict,lol.
I think we both know thats not even what I'm trying to imply,but if people are implying that black men who love themselves should not find light skinned black woman attractive.....aren't you then saying who they should find attractive, if they want to be considered brothers?
but you know what.......there is an agenda within our community that forces people to reject Black women such as myself for fear of being labelled a closet whitey lover, and expects me.......to either reject any type of appreciation for my skin tone, even from romantic interests (which surely is when it should occur) or to refrain from liking it myself, I know the historical basis for it slavery/ white is right, but you know what ? My folks were not slaves, either house or field, my tone is almost synonymous with my African tribe as well as my features, so you can understand why I get so annoyed or at least perplexed.
The truth is Mahogony.......as much as some people here refer to me as "sis" etc and online I'm a "sister", if they saw a randon pick of a Black guy walking with me,the same chi, he would be labelled a closet "whitey lover" just by virtue of being with me.....a light skinned girl.
Now I think that is crazy and for the birds.......I know that shadism and indoctrination exists, but I am against using it to attack individuals when its convenient.
It's like when Black folks finally started asserting that Jesus could have been Black and depicting him that way, all of a sudden white folks and some Tom Negroes started saying: "What difference does it make what color he was?, his blood was red and he died for our sins, blah blah blah" It's mighty convenient that they never saw fit to ask that question during the 500 years that Jesus was EXCLUSIVELY being portrayed as Blond haired and blue eyed(not to mention the real life agenda and effects it had on crackers world domination). Now that he's being depicted as a N****r, all of a sudden mofos have an epiphany about how race and skin tone don't matter, and wanna sing We Are The Word,lol. Pure Balderdash. Assigning a race to Jesus wasn't a problem before because they BENEFITTED from it. They are full of sh*t. THEY made his race an issue, not us. The fact that we FINALLY got enough sense to counteract some of their bullsh*t, does not make us guilty/racist/petty or any of the other assorted bullsh*t they try to saddle us with.
White people will always try and reinforce their own agenda to suit them, but the aspect of some of the Black agenda that I'm talking above makes it necessary for Black people to be rejected by OTHER BLACKS......this thread did not concern a White woman, but a Black one, its her who is in the firing line, not some leggy blonde.
As far as Sanaa, I totally agree. There is nothing European about her to me,there is nothing unusual or uncommon about her skin tone. she is just getting caught up in the madness that ensues from all of the psychological issues that result from years of having the European beauty ideal FORCED on us. It renders us incapable of just appreciating beauty in all its hues among ourselves. The funny thing is, ultimately both light and darker skinned sisters lose.
At least we agree on one thing.
A darker skinned sister can't just be good looking she's got to be "good looking for a darker skinned person "if we're able to perceive her as good looking AT ALL, a light skinned sister can't just be good looking, she's got be good looking BECAUSE she looks more like some non specific, random white woman,(even if she doesn't really look like a white woman). As in the case of the Jesus depiction, skin color/tone has been made POLITICAL, it has been tied to things OTHER than just aestethics. The horse was let out of the barn, long ago. We're just responding to it, that's all.
Thats fair enough, and this is not a "chi against us" issue......we both suffer under the White is right way of thinking.
The White Jesus we have all been shown looks nothing like me either.
This particular response is not affecting White people one bit, it affects people within our own community. The real deal is, on this site anyway that WHENEVER a black man finds a light skinned girl attractive he is labelled as a self hater, that in turn makes pride in your race synomous with rejecting a black woman who is not dark........thats the reality.
Last edited on Tuesday January 9th, 2007 15:26 by chi
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Aryek
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Posted: Tuesday January 9th, 2007 17:06 |
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chi wrote: ....I still dont see what is so white about Sanaa....to say she looks European is an overstretch (please can you piont it out). To say that a black man is with a light skinned Black woman because he doesn't like Black women is just madness....it is that he likes a certain type of Black woman,black men who dont date Black women, dont generally date women with two Black parents, mixed race at a stretch, but not a Black woman who has a light skin shade.
I don't see what is white about Sanaa either. I just think that people are getting wary of the black community promoting eurocentric features, as if we don't get enough from the white media, and they've now been driven to the point that they can only accept someone like Alec Wek as "the" representation of true African beauty. Personally I don't look like either Alec, Sanaa, Beyonce, Naomi, Liya, so if I was insecure the promotion of any one of them as the ideal black woman would be detrimental to my sense of self. But since I have some features in common with some of them, as the majority of black women do, I don't see why together they all should not be looked at as an affirmation of the beauty of black women in general. I mean someone might be light skinned but share features closer to Alec than Liya and vice versa so why can't they fuse both of them together to serve their purpose?
And these generalizations you spoke of don't just stop at skin colour. Now people will be telling you that you are not the ideal black woman if you're not atleast a size 12. And this is an ideal that a lot of black men uphold, so what is someone like me supposed to do? The reason why there is so much madness going on with black people is because those of us, and I admit I've been a victim to these feelings in the past, who seek to rid ourselves of the European ideals of beauty, body type etc, make the mistake of only being able to affirm the extreme opposite of these ideals. If white people say light is right, we have to say dark skin only. If they say size 0 is the feminine shape, we'll say that the ideal body shape of a black woman is a size 12 and no skinny women need apply. Fair enough for the people who have all these things, but how many of us will meet every requirement? Hell even white people are having problems with the promotion of only one standard of white beauty. So while I agree that we should be wary of eurocentric ideals and the black people who promote it, the answer is not for us to launch a backlash against light skinned black women or the men because they definetly need love too. 
And while I agree that a black man dating a light skinned black women might just have a preference for that type of black woman and is not looking for a white female stand-in, the reason why so many people are quick to question their motives is because there are number of black men who start off like this and then move onto white women when the opportunity presents itself. It doesn't mean that every black man will be like this, but those that do are noticed more as many of them are even celebrities. This causes people to form sterotypical attitudes about other black males in this position.
For instance word is going around that Morris Chestnut and his wife are getting a divorce. Chestnut's wife happens to be a light-skinned black woman and a few days after word got around that they were divorcing, he was spotted around L.A. kissing a blond. Now if only this was just one isolated case but from what I've seen many, but not all, black men who show a preference for light-skinned black women hardly ever stop at skin tone. They'll also be looking for "white-like" features, long and kinkiless hair, etc. A lot of us forget that just as there are skin-colour preferences in our race, there're also feature and hair type preferences that are just as strong. The only reason why we often overlook them in our debates is because they were never as politicized as skin tone was in the past However, now many people are starting to take note of them and it seems to be that often the preference for light-skinned women with European features and the so-called "good-hair" is more widespread than preference for light-skinned women with stereotypical African features and afro hair. This is why no one is surprised when many black men with a light skin preference find themeselves more attracted to white women and other women who generally have all of these features in one package. Again people see this and become wary of these men because they think that it's only a matter of time before they jump ship.
I dont see what is so wrong about even liking a skin tone like Sanaa's, if you look at it, there is no reason to consider it ugly or particularly unattractive IMO........its warm, clear and healthy looking, why should people be forced or feel like they have to consider it a turnoff or even a turn on?
Can someone please explain why it is almost required that it be a turnoff to a man, if he is not to be considered a self hater?
Let me get this straight, in an "ideal" world Black men would only ever find dark skin attractive?
No in the ideal world black men and women would find all shades of black attractive without issue. But the world has never been a utopia and it will never be. All we can do is learn to maneuver around the reality that colourism in our community is a double-edged sword.
I have never seen a White woman with her skin tone....have you?
Actually I have, one who had tanned herself to the point that from the back, she looked like what Indians label as a dark skinned Indian woman. Lol.
Last edited on Tuesday January 9th, 2007 20:38 by Aryek
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Ijeoma
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Posted: Tuesday January 9th, 2007 19:55 |
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Chi, I get where you are coming from...Light skinned people like yourself should be deemed deemed beatifull simply because they are beatifull, not because they are light. And yes, among conscious folks is a reluctance to call a clearly beautifull light skinned person beautifull lest they be seen as self hater...Back home, if you're light ,you're light...no special name tag attached...if you happen to be attracted to one, it's like 'okay, whatever.'
However, I tend to agree more with gmahogany:
I'm all for positivity when possible, but that IS THE WAY IT IS. If I come across 7 pug nosed dogs on 7 different days, and they all bite me, sooner or later, I'm going to form a generalization about pug nosed dogs, and make necessary decisions in reference to them. That's the way the human brain works. Only a retarded person continues to treat each new pug nosed dog like a NEW and Unique event, even after being attacked by them continously, and I may be underestimating retarded folks, even THEY will pick up on the pattern after a while and adjust, it may just take longer.
(This had me laughing by the way!!!)
In many people's experience....light skinned people are deemed automatically beautifull simply because they are light....even if they have a peanut shaped head or a nose like a potato.
Just the other day me and my friend overheard a couple of guys talking about how they met this girl, and someone commented : 'Well, she weren't all that, but at least she was light and not dark (in a condescending tone)' Everyone mumbles agreement. Funny thing was, the one who said this was blue black.
My ex broke up with me about a year ago. When he tried to get back with me I asked him why he broke up with me in the first place to be with this other girl and he said: 'Because she was light.' And I was like was that it? Apparently his friends told him I was too dark and he could get much better bla bla bla...
This other ex also had issues...I noticed him always commenting on skin tone like....'ooooh he dark/ gosh she's light' etc. He was even surprised when T-Pain the singer turned out to be darkskinned black man, he thought he was light skinned cause his voice sounded so 'smooth' When I said 'Well I'm dark too!' He was reassuring me I was not...actually reassuring me, as if it was a bad thing to begin with!
I am not saying everyone who likes light skinned women/men is a self hater. But as one hears, sees and experiences that often light skinned is seen as better, automatically....sometimes one cannot help but think along such lines. When I hear a retarded comment about light skin it still stings, even though I say to myself the person who said it clearly is an idiot. So yeah, I get why people react passionately when a light woman is put forward as beauty...because of all the previous stings. Though it should not, skin tone does matter.
As to the original topic! Sanaa Lathan is pretty, not stunning in my opinion.
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Posted: Tuesday January 9th, 2007 20:55 |
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@all-My responses are in green and blue. Green being my initial response to Chi, and blue being my responses to her responses. Chi's responses are all in red.
Chi,
I don't think anyone is saying that a BLack man who dates light skinned women is AUTOMATICALLY a self hater.
I actually think there are people here who are saying exactly that, you may not be, but nobody speaks for all.
Touche.
I know that's not what I'm saying. I don't even think that a Black man who happens to find a PARTICULAR white woman attractive is necessarily a self hater. What people are commenting on is the fact that there are many Black men historically and currently who DO date light skinned women only because they view them as closer to white and therefore superior in beauty.
And in turn you cant find Sanaa attractive/sexy without being a self hater. Thats the thing that triggered those responses to her, nothing to do with anyone exclusively dating light women, but a suggestion from a poster that Sanaa is sexy in his opinion, and because she is light or not dark, other posters reacted to that suggestion.....thats what happened.
In all fairness, though, I think that as Aryek said, people's response to this thread was colored by the reputation of the person who started the thread. Sanaa would not even be considered light skinned by most African Americans. I think folks are so conditioned to the originator of the thread only finding light skinned women attractive, their brains latched on to that and couldn't let it go.
How do we know this? Several ways, some of them will TELL u that is the case. Like the dude Black PantherEldridge CLeaver talked about in his book Soul on Ice, who said: A white woman is automatically beautiful, even if she has 1 strand of hair on her head and no teeth in her mouth. She is beautiful BECAUSE she is white". Cleaver wasn't just saying that to talk about some random dude, he was saying that because that was the PREVAILING feeling among many Black men(even in so called conscious circles, and he was commenting on that,btw he wasn't even excluding himself from that psychology, as evidenced by the sister he married-Kathleen Cleaver, warrior like as all get out, but very much resembled a white woman suprise suprise. Why folks are trying to act like this phenomenon is a figment of people's imagination is beyond me.
I think we both know that there are some people who think White women are the bees knees, what does that have to do with a man who likes a BLACK WOMAN who looks IMO NOTHING like a White woman?
Agreed. As I said before, I really don't think this had as much to do with Sanaa, as it did with the rep of the originator of the thread. Some other bro not known for exalting light skinned women over any and every other kind of women, could have made the same thread and probably had a totally different response, I suspect.
Many of this ilk deal with light skinned chicks up and until they get the balls or the financial status to UPGRADE to a white woman,(a la OJ Simpson)even if the upgrade is really a downgrade,a la OJ Simpson,lol, so much so that it's not uncommon to hear light skin sisters complain or worry about when they will get traded in for the REAL prize....Miss Anne,lol.
Not me darling..........I dont see myself as a WW stand in, I look nothing like a White woman, and fella's who really want one, are not even attracted to me. I'm glad to hear that, cause from what I've heard, it's a really sh*tty feeling.
Your question about the ideal world is interesting to me. It implies that because we are commenting on the fact that the real world EXALTS white and light skin above all else, and equates brown and dark hues to inferior status, we somehow are trying to IMPOSE a love for brown and dark hues and are the ones causing conflict/divisiveness, not the people who set up and perpetuate the white/light is right agenda. They haven't been imposing or ramming THAT beauty standard/agenda down our throats all this time, that centuries long agenda has never caused bad feeling or conflict,lol.
I think we both know thats not even what I'm trying to imply,but if people are implying that black men who love themselves should not find light skinned black woman attractive.....aren't you then saying who they should find attractive, if they want to be considered brothers?
If there are people here who are saying that, I totallly disagree with them. I specifcally said that I don't equate a brother finding a particular light skinned or white skinned woman attractive, necessarily a self hater. I said that bros who think that any and everything light or white is attractive, just by virtue of being light or white , is a self hater and has bad taste to boot, which they are entitled to of course. I think plenty of light skinned women are attractive like Tamia for instance. I don't think she's attractive BECAUSE she's light. I think Lauryn Hill is attractive, and not BECAUSE she's dark. I think Ed Gordon is attractive and not BECAUSE he's light. I think MOrris Chestnut is attractive, and not BECAUSE he's dark. I think there are people who fall somewhere between light skinned and dark skinned who are attractive. I also think, and will name, if pressed, people of all of those hues who are utterly unattractive and or overrated.
but you know what.......there is an agenda within our community that forces people to reject Black women such as myself for fear of being labelled a closet whitey lover, and expects me.......to either reject any type of appreciation for my skin tone, even from romantic interests (which surely is when it should occur) or to refrain from liking it myself, I know the historical basis for it slavery/ white is right, but you know what ? My folks were not slaves, either house or field, my tone is almost synonymous with my African tribe as well as my features, so you can understand why I get so annoyed or at least perplexed. I don't know Chi, if there is an agenda to get bros to reject light skinned sisters, it's not a very effective one. Light skinned sisters don't seem to be underepresented in any area of media or on the arms of today's most celebrated actors,athletes,politicians,rappers, singers, or on the arms of regular everyday brothers. So I'm not sure who's conducting that agenda, but whomever it is, is coming up way short, from all indications.
The truth is Mahogony.......as much as some people here refer to me as "sis" etc and online I'm a "sister", if they saw a randon pick of a Black guy walking with me,the same chi, he would be labelled a closet "whitey lover" just by virtue of being with me.....a light skinned girl.
Now I think that is crazy and for the birds.......I know that shadism and indoctrination exists, but I am against using it to attack individuals when its convenient.
Anyone who would look at one woman that a guy has dated and conclude something like that, is presumptious and foolish. For all they know, the woman he dated before u could have been brown or dark skinned. MOst of the time when people with any sense come to these conclusions, it's after detecting a pattern, observing a series of women, like my example of Quincy Jones,(who btw, still insists that he just HAPPENS to have only dealt with white women in all his 70 years, not anything having to do with disliking Black women). That is of course asinine and I'd have more respect for him if he just admitted what anyone with an iota of sense, already knows is true, but I digress.
It's like when Black folks finally started asserting that Jesus could have been Black and depicting him that way, all of a sudden white folks and some Tom Negroes started saying: "What difference does it make what color he was?, his blood was red and he died for our sins, blah blah blah" It's mighty convenient that they never saw fit to ask that question during the 500 years that Jesus was EXCLUSIVELY being portrayed as Blond haired and blue eyed(not to mention the real life agenda and effects it had on crackers world domination). Now that he's being depicted as a N****r, all of a sudden mofos have an epiphany about how race and skin tone don't matter, and wanna sing We Are The Word,lol. Pure Balderdash. Assigning a race to Jesus wasn't a problem before because they BENEFITTED from it. They are full of sh*t. THEY made his race an issue, not us. The fact that we FINALLY got enough sense to counteract some of their bullsh*t, does not make us guilty/racist/petty or any of the other assorted bullsh*t they try to saddle us with.
White people will always try and reinforce their own agenda to suit them, but the aspect of some of the Black agenda that I'm talking above makes it necessary for Black people to be rejected by OTHER BLACKS......this thread did not concern a White woman, but a Black one, its her who is in the firing line, not some leggy blonde.
Agreed. Again, I'm totally unconvinced that this discussion is REALLY about Sanaa looking like white woman, as she clearly does not.
As far as Sanaa, I totally agree. There is nothing European about her to me,there is nothing unusual or uncommon about her skin tone. she is just getting caught up in the madness that ensues from all of the psychological issues that result from years of having the European beauty ideal FORCED on us. It renders us incapable of just appreciating beauty in all its hues among ourselves. The funny thing is, ultimately both light and darker skinned sisters lose.
At least we agree on one thing.
A darker skinned sister can't just be good looking she's got to be "good looking for a darker skinned p | | | |
