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RasRuben
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Posted: Wednesday December 13th, 2006 22:04 |
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Sa-Ptah wrote:
Yeah...I have heard this 50% figure being thrown around the so-called black community for the last couple of years. However, I didn't take it seriously since I didn't SEE IT translated to the streets. However, in the interest of science I did some research (took all of 5 minutes) and I believe I found the source of this myth. There are at least two lessons to be learned here:
- Do the research before you open your mouth
- The selective use and interpretation of statistics can be used to distort reality.
Go here: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=1090&Pos=1&ColRank=2&Rank=384
Note: These people, who chose to classify themselves as 'Other Black', represent 10% (97,585), of all people classified as black residing in the UK.
Source: Census - England and Wales 29 April 2001
Hotep.
Greetings, Im Hotep
Thank you for that. I was hoping someone knew what I was talking about. Statistics are probably the most misused mathmatical resource there is. It is frequently used to distort the truth simply because they know in the media that the average person will not know how to discern true stats from twisted political stats unless they have done some subject to do with maths and scientific research (maths, sociology, psychology etc) at an a-level or higher. Conversely the person could be a person who does their own primary research and has looked up statistical analysis (most people into history seriously). Something I see a lot here is people throwing around stats when they haven't bothered to look at the sample, how it was taken and also how the target group was defined (as you will find they are beginning to use the anyone who is not "white" is "black" talk in this country meaning soon it may not even be Africans they are referring to.
What we have as a serious problem in our community is an absence of people who are doing their own research before they have these discussions and it causes a lot of confusion and disheartenment when it is not needed. Sistas need not bother thinking our men are leaving them in droves, that is a statistical trick that is being used against us as Africans. we still love you sisters.
Again Sa-Ptah, thank you and may blessings of peace and serenity befall you.
Shem Hotep
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FredB
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Posted: Wednesday December 13th, 2006 23:45 |
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@Sa Ptah...On the money about the use and abuse of stats when it comes to black people generally and African-Caribbean people specifically. The most authorative source regarding interacial marriages are the National Household Surveys by the Policy Studies Institute (PSI). All forms of data collection of this type have many fundamental problems which affects their accuracy. PSI methods has a standard deviation of anything from 0.9-3.0 which is signficant.
Also we have to remember that these surveys cover areas where black people are not a significant number of the population to areas where we are dense in number. Equally, its merges generational and demographic issues as I mentioned. So those old black men of early generation in places like Liverpool etc are treated in the same way as some youth with his white ting. Then you have things like what to do with the Other category, including mixed race people as mentioned. These things heavily distort the data or how it can be interpretated because as you said. When I check most brothers I know young or old from my manor they aint got white girls.
I have never been to any social function or rave where fifty percent of brothers have white girls even in Liverpool and Manchester and them places where that stuff is deep.
I am involved in a tussle right now and was very recently at a conference where a brother who is well known Lee Japser claimed that black women have the highest experience of domestic violence which was the worse thing he could have said in my pressence. In fact he said it was six times higher than that of white women. This is the kind of sh*t that goes on every day and this was an international criminology conference.
Unfortunately for my old mucker Jasper I challenged him raw and said his data or claims were false and I would like him to break down the specific ethnic groups included in that general category. He then got defensive and said his organisation used the CRE standard which was bollocks because he did not give any figures for say Black African, African-Caribbean, Mixed race, just black. And he must really think we are idiots for anyone who knows anything serious about masculinity theory and cultures, or domestic violence literature and research or policing whether it is practically or theoretically to not see through that sh*t. How many black women's refuges have you heard of compared to the whole heap of Asian ones.
In fact my research shows that African-Caribbean women have the lowest experience of domestic violence at any range or level and Asians the worse. And as I told him I would bet my life and those of my unborn children that a whole heap of the women included in that category of black are not only Asian, but African immigrants or refugees. Women with weak legal status are historically subject to serious abuse of all sorts. So a recent Somalia women who may not even see herself as African or Black is pushed in to push up the figures. For what purposes you may ask yourself and answer it as quickly.
In fact the most authoritative data source in policing the British Crime Survey for 2004 said 4.5 white women, 4.6 Black women and kiss my black arse Asians women were only 4.1. Really? That is why you can go back and find so many dead and murdered Asian and White women, but very few black women from domestic violence.
In fact more black women have died from gun crime in a short period than all the black women together in the last several decades from domestic violence. So who are these people fooling? But check this even the British Crime Survey the most authorative source on any issue related to crime, which uses a bogus general category of 'Black' which probably includes my pet cat in it as well. Only found one percent difference between black and white women, while this jackarse Jasper is telling people our women are six times at greater risk of violence from men than any other.
Oh by the way if you want more joke if one assumes even if his figures were true that because a black woman is a victim the perpetrator is a man is also a false assumption, because these women represent the broad scope of women with men of all colours. But when the fire out those figures most people naturally assume. Black woman, Black man. No wrong there.
The joke is and this is a diversion I worked this out without examining data many years ago by basic experience of how men operate but more importantly understanding culture and important differences between cultures and the likelyhood of particular forms of violence based on that.
But statistics is a key weapon used by our enemies to harm us and why we need intelligent and educated people who can tear that sh*t up and see through it in their sleep.
FB
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kiley
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 01:11 |
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See this article:
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article2016069.ece
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DSP
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 01:46 |
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kiley wrote: Madam Butterfly wrote: Dachiefette and Kiley: This is REALLY the wrong place to be pushing your agenda. This site is about encouraging more Black relationships in opposition to all the IR. You really won't find an audience or sympathy for your views here.
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I'm discussing things that are common sense not pushing any agenda.I'll Private message other things. from the thread view numbers  the audience is abit large and some love this type of t.v. show drama.
I think that article you posted was a farce, and the woman who wrote it has an agenda and she's one of those black women that are an embarrassment black people.
btw are you mixed race?
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kiley
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 02:30 |
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| ... Last edited on Friday January 5th, 2007 21:28 by kiley
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facetygal
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 05:43 |
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Hmmm yeah I love me a whiteman, can't get enough of them. Prefer the ones that look like Jon B mmmm hmmm. Waking up next to that pasty white skin every morning just does something for the soul you know, I don't get the same feeling when I'm with a blackman. Blackmen just wanna use and abuse me but a whiteman treats me like a goddess, I can see the love in his eyes when I serve him swine for breakfast.
Yep I'm reading this thread laughin into my weetabix thinking what the hell? But I really shouldn't let it faze me cos BP's analogy don't apply to me. I know how I treat my blackmen, shame I can't say the same for how some blackmen treat me.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 06:40 |
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Just going back to Kiley's ignorant point, as someone is somewhat older than this person, i can advise her that the beige utopia has been talked about consistently since the Sixities as the solution to all forms of racism... so this attempt by the Independant to once again recycle this utopia is nothing new...
However Kiley the point that you obviously fail to grasp is simple, there is no a chance in cats hell, that this country will ever embrace the washing out of thier racial identity... One only has to stop and listen on any radio station in respect of the current hysteria on Muslims to realise that, read the constant foolish debate on the veil or better still look at the stats on white flight out of the urban centres of every major city and indeed out of the country... I would also add that the factors of black flight from the Uk has yet to be factored into this equation..
Beige utopia I don't think so, further i totally concur with others when they state quite clearly that this 50% you chat so much about is NOT reflected in the circles i move in, nor is it reflected in the people i meet proffessionally...The 50% would be reflected within the coconut class or those in the media..but as they do not make a significant number in our community..it seems to me that you and others like you have once adopted this rose tinted outlook on africans in this country. Sorry to have to burst your myopic bubble but YOUR beige Utopia will never ever happen!!!
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blackbutterfly182
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 09:57 |
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@Ras reuben, I got my statistics form articles I have read eg in pride and watching tv programmes. This 50% statistic is bandied around a lot. But I now kno I shouldnt take statistics too seriously as they have an agenda to push but when you hear it time and time again you seriously start to believe it. But as they say dont believe the the hype. I of all people should kno as I have studied media! But people in here have broken down how to really look into statistics properley. No offence taken.
@kiley, why should I not want to only go out with black men? does this offend you that I love and only want a black man to marry and be the father of my children. Does it make you uncomfortable that I dont want to contribute to the growing "generation m". Go and push your see through inter-racial agenda elsewhere. Thank you.
Is the writer of the independent article the same amina taylor, who works for 94.9fm. A favourite of MarcusGarveyLives?
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Black_Power
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 10:33 |
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| bump
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 11:10 |
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kiley wrote: BB,
If you don't mind me asking, why do you only date black men? Do you feel you owe these guys something, or their going to leave 50% of their partners for you because of their loyalty?
I can never understand that way of thinking.
Yeah, I bet you hate things you don't understand.
In the UK 30%of black women have white partners .
Which might explain why 80% plus of black people in Britain live in predominately Black/Asian areas.
And since the vast majority of the racism in Britain is perpetuated by white males generally from outside of these areas, that 30% figure must...... be....well ....bullsh*t. By the way my mother is married to a white bloke.
I doubt that 30% of mixed raced women even date white.
The average white male interest and black women don't mix too well from what I've witnessed, it is a rather isolating experience.
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kiley
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 13:32 |
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| .. Last edited on Friday January 5th, 2007 21:27 by kiley
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 13:45 |
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| Kiley: excuse if I make the obious point that I states that it is an interpratation of the FACTS!!!! I have yet to see any hard facts to support your assertion... lets be clear a newspaper article in one paper is not a fact, nor is some spurious stat with no evidence of how the information was gathered, who was interviewed or what questions were asked...
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Prince Hakeem
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 14:03 |
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kiley wrote: BB,
If you don't mind me asking, why do you only date black men? Do you feel you owe these guys something, or their going to leave 50% of their partners for you because of their loyalty?
I can never understand that way of thinking.
In the UK 30%of black women have white partners . Respect yourself.
So any African who refuses to have a white partner is disrespecting themselves?
Get the f*ck out of here with that nonsense. I can't stand arseholes like you.
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blackbutterfly182
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 14:09 |
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| @Prince Hakeem, of course we are disrespecting ourselves. We as Black people should all want and crave white partners. Its not normal if we dont, dont you kno white is the new black!lol
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bubz
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 14:11 |
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a young black man i know recently said to me that if black women want a decent man they should broaden their criteria to include white men (and other non-blacks) because the majority of black men are worthless. he said he knows far too many fine single woman, holding out for a black men when from what he can see, most black men are not worthy of them and they may remain single for the rest of their lives if they dont wake up and realise they have a better chance of getting married and/or being in a happy relationship if they start to consider white men.
he counts himself (and a small exclusive circle of his friends and relatives) in a tiny minority of successful worthwhile black men.
i thought it weird that a black man should have this view of other black men but maybe this isn't that uncommon. and maybe because some black men feel this way (that white men are more likely to make a superior husband/boyfriend for a black woman) they expect black women also rate white men above them.
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kiley
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 15:00 |
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| .. Last edited on Friday January 5th, 2007 21:26 by kiley
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DSP
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 15:06 |
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Yeap. 
but honestly I think BNV needs to relax things a little so members can feel free to be their real selves. Many members on here probably share Kiley's views and are afraid to express them, yet pretend for the sake of fitting in here. 
Sorry DSP but the above is pure bollox, it is not up to others to empower weak individuals who lack the courage of their convictions...it is up those people who share Kiley's view to get some backbone and make their case... I really get fed up with this constant expectation that the weak minded should be pandered to....if people can act with the balls that god gave them then thats their problem simple!!!Last edited on Thursday December 14th, 2006 19:17 by Kunjufu
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babygirl44
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 15:21 |
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| I also think that we should allow Kiley and people who agree with her to express themselves. Its going to be a crap debate if everyone just agrees with eachother and I'm always keen to hear opposing views.
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Madam Butterfly
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 15:27 |
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bubz wrote: a young black man i know recently said to me that if black women want a decent man they should broaden their criteria to include white men (and other non-blacks) because the majority of black men are worthless. he said he knows far too many fine single woman, holding out for a black men when from what he can see, most black men are not worthy of them and they may remain single for the rest of their lives if they dont wake up and realise they have a better chance of getting married and/or being in a happy relationship if they start to consider white men.
he counts himself (and a small exclusive circle of his friends and relatives) in a tiny minority of successful worthwhile black men.
i thought it weird that a black man should have this view of other black men but maybe this isn't that uncommon. and maybe because some black men feel this way (that white men are more likely to make a superior husband/boyfriend for a black woman) they expect black women also rate white men above them.
The only thing about that statement that surprises me is the fact that it came from a Black man.
At the end of the day if a Black woman wants a relationship with a Black man then she isn;t going to settle for anything less. However, if she is looking to get married and have a family etc then she may indeed broaden her horizons.
For my part i am not that bothered about getting married. As for having children i have never felt ready, even at my age. But at some point in the future i would like to adopt and the rules about that are being relaxed all the time.
I have no problem with being or staying single. But should i ever want to do the whole marriage thing then it will be to a Black man or no man at all. I just prefer whats familiar to me and what i can relate to.
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Prince Hakeem
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 17:28 |
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kiley wrote:
No,their not disrespecting themselves . You missed the point so you throw out angry insults .
You don't have a "point".
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nsogbu1562
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 17:39 |
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Kunjufu wrote: Just going back to Kiley's ignorant point, as someone is somewhat older than this person, i can advise her that the beige utopia has been talked about consistently since the Sixities as the solution to all forms of racism... so this attempt by the Independant to once again recycle this utopia is nothing new...
However Kiley the point that you obviously fail to grasp is simple, there is no a chance in cats hell, that this country will ever embrace the washing out of thier racial identity... One only has to stop and listen on any radio station in respect of the current hysteria on Muslims to realise that, read the constant foolish debate on the veil or better still look at the stats on white flight out of the urban centres of every major city and indeed out of the country... I would also add that the factors of black flight from the Uk has yet to be factored into this equation..
Beige utopia I don't think so, further i totally concur with others when they state quite clearly that this 50% you chat so much about is NOT reflected in the circles i move in, nor is it reflected in the people i meet proffessionally...The 50% would be reflected within the coconut class or those in the media..but as they do not make a significant number in our community..it seems to me that you and others like you have once adopted this rose tinted outlook on africans in this country. Sorry to have to burst your myopic bubble but YOUR beige Utopia will never ever happen!!!
I agree with the above sentiments. The mixed race group might be a rapidly expanding minority ethnic group at the moment but it is still just that... a MINORITY ethnic group. Unless mixed heritage people go out of their way to procreate with other mixed heritage people, in 100 to 200 years time, they will be 'absorbed' into the 'indigenous' white population (as was alluded to on that silly programme a few months ago 'The Black British Invasion').
Over 200 years ago in London, Africans comprised 1 in 10 Londoners. Unless someone can correct me, there is no identifiable African community in London that has existed since that period to this day. Where are their descendants today?....The white 'Sun' journalist Gary Bushell found out much to his dismay in the programme '100% English', that he was one of them.
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RasRuben
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Posted: Thursday December 14th, 2006 17:39 |
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kiley wrote:
Its not my utopia or Idea,Its what is happening.Again most of you have lost the point,in that you think this is about pushing an agenda through IR relationships. The American IR rate is quite low but not the UK's. I don't know why some people want to make this seems as if someone is pushing an Agenda,when you can see on just about every other thread the word caveb**ches,and showing buckwheat pictures to describe black people. Go to the people who collect the stats because the pretending thing seems like denial.
The UK's IR dating rate is just as low as Americas but you fail to see this and you always fail to answer the necessary questions to prove your point. Nobody is pretending. It is a simple mathmatical equasion and a little common sense that tells you that IR dating stats are foolish propoganda tools put in newspapers by people who know it is BS to push an agenda. The agenda is not even more mixed couples. It is simply about pushing the agenda of intergration (which is more like assimilation) and people who do not understand the indoctrination that is being forced upon them fall for it hook line and sinker. You start going on about things like we should mix. It is a new world to you people but an old one to a person who knows it's age. The sample of the people who found this statistic cannot be more than 20-25% of the population if that, leaving 75%+ of the African population in the UK unaccounted for in these studies. The areas where these studies are conducted are very carefully though out so you will not find these things been done in places like hackney but more likely in places like kensington and muswell hill where the population of Africans is likely to be a certain type (I know y'all know what I mean). Even then there is no distinction between long term and short term relationships. You do not have the conclusion of the actual author of the paper used to project these statistics, I could go on for ages about parameters you do not know about that you need to before you start making claims about statistics.
BB,
I'm not trying to convince you of anything,You said that 50% of black men are with partners of other races.You said that you and some other women are waiting on them. If I was trying to convince you of something I would have told you who to marry or date,when I don't really have the time too. Some women are getting on with their lives though.
BB has admitted she may have been wrong but I doubt you would. It has been admitted because of this:
Yeah...I have heard this 50% figure being thrown around the so-called black community for the last couple of years. However, I didn't take it seriously since I didn't SEE IT translated to the streets. However, in the interest of science I did some research (took all of 5 minutes) and I believe I found the source of this myth. There are at least two lessons to be learned here:
- Do the research before you open your mouth
- The selective use and interpretation of statistics can be used to distort reality.
Go here: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=1090&Pos=1&ColRank=2&Rank=384
Note: These people, who chose to classify themselves as 'Other Black', represent 10% (97,585), of all people classified as black residing in the UK.
Source: Census - England and Wales 29 April 2001
PM,
If infact you are a peacemaker,Again you're going with the pushing an Agenda theme. So No kind of government stats will make you believe reality because you think its all make believe.
He is not saying it is make believe nor is anyone else but what is being said is that the stats are being misrepresented. If you ever have a chance to hear a man speak his name is Hugh Coolican I suggest you do. I have had the pleasure of meeting the man. He makes the statistics books for psychology (and other subjects) across the whole country and is seen as a leading authority on statistics. If you see any literature by him you should read it too. He will show you that most if not all of the statistics used by the media and governments are twisted to force conclusions that are not there. The general public who believe in the honour
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