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Black_Power
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Posted: Monday December 11th, 2006 14:32 |
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kiley this isnt an IR topic... please respect my thread and stop trying to divert is to plug your personal issues.
in other words save your confessions for the pastor
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Madam Butterfly
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Posted: Monday December 11th, 2006 15:04 |
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Black_Power wrote: Maddam B you are indeed correct I dont just base my opinions of thin air
I based it on this.
Female humans are programmed by nature to be attracted to alpha males ie. the male most likely to be able to control wealth and provide for offspring the best...
 what's with the Dove commercial?!!? 
So in modern times we have capitalism in which white males are the "alpha males" because they had wealth passed to them after slavery which they used to build the white empire we live in today which favours white males when passing out money making oportunities/hiring (hence they will have a lower failure rate and the wealth to use the media to spread the idea/sterio type that black males are just less productive by nature).
Black western males are the decendants of slaves who did not have wealth and land to pass down to thier kids so we did not have the oportunity to invest huge amounts of illgotten profits or any profits at all to build an empire that would favour our own people... I agree with majority of this so far...
Females are not logical they do things instinctively that will benifit offspring so it should come as no surprise that black women are attracted to the higher wealth earning potential of white men... The reason is irrelivent to them cause their minds are not logical they make desisions mainly on what the situation is NOT WHY IT IS THAT WAY! Isn't this just a theorhetical generalization? If that were the case, ALL black women would be dating white men or successful black men. We both know this is not true. We also know that although some black women may date a type of man deemed "wotless" even by herself, she will usually keep going for this type. Hence the negative generalization.
- One of the biggest misconceptions to damage the black race is the idea that the passage of time hase leveled the playing field some how and now black men have the same opportunities as white men, THIS COULD NEVER BE THE CASE BECASUE 90% OF THE PROFITS AND LAND OWNERSHIP MADE DURING SLAVERY HAVE BEEN USED TO BUILD UP HUGE CORPORATIONS THAT SERVE THE WHITE WESTERN INTERSTS AND NOT THOSE OF BLACKS. Again i agree, but can you really not see the flaws in the section i emboldened. Also, there is nothing wrong with a woman wanting to go for a man who will do the best by her offspring. That, as you say is nature and not illogical at all. In fact nothing could be MORE logical. I just disagree with the premise that this is what would make white men more attractive to black women than black men. I go back to my original question to you BP: Do you personally know alot of Black women who date white men and do you have first hand knowledge of why they do so? Until you do, its just theory which, although on the surface has a sound basis, is not necessarily applicable to real everyday life. It also makes the assumption that there is no way for a Black man to become successful and places importance on wealth above all else. Maybe i am in a minority, bt when choosing the father of my children i will be looking for qualities other than his bank balance.
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Incognito
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Posted: Monday December 11th, 2006 15:12 |
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MB - good input though not turning this into an issue of IR would you say even if secretly, the perception is whiteman are thought of as better?
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Madam Butterfly
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Posted: Monday December 11th, 2006 15:31 |
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I can't purport to speak for all Black women but in my own humble opinion, HELL FRIGGING NO lol How am I, as a Black woman, going to look at a White man and think he is somehow better than my own? Better on what level? personally i prefer someone i have things in common with culturally. I have nothing against White people, but I would never date a White person. When I say they are not "better" than Black men, i mean "better" for me personally.
Plenty of wotless White men and Plenty of successful Black men out there, and i am not just talking in terms of monetary wealth. I have never been that shallow. Like i say, most folks who date interacially usually feel a need to justify it. If it needs justifing, then it isn;t right.
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Black_Power
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Posted: Monday December 11th, 2006 15:51 |
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maddam B
I know plenty black women..as for dating greybacks not many of them do
BUT its the way some TREAT blackmen in relation to how they treat the greys that inspired this thread.
I mean brothers help me out here...how many times have you been somewhere and theers been a sister serving and she all chatty with the grey but the moment you step up you see her whole persona change?..its little thinks like that accompainied with the famouse buzz words..."thug"..."streetman"..."ghetto" that got me thinking.
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Incognito
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Posted: Monday December 11th, 2006 16:17 |
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BP - LOL, the best one for me is when you stop at a zebra crossing and the sista turns around with the words thank you on the tip of her tongue but the words fail her when she sees it's a brotha - magnify that by ten if she's Caribbean and the punk is from the continent
Last edited on Monday December 11th, 2006 16:24 by Incognito
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Black_Power
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Posted: Monday December 11th, 2006 16:24 |
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lol theres too many examples I could mention
see that prog "lil miss jocyln" she does that character to the T...BUT she had to base it something right??...
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Madam Butterfly
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Posted: Monday December 11th, 2006 17:03 |
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Black_Power wrote:
BUT its the way some TREAT blackmen in relation to how they treat the greys that inspired this thread. ok, now i overstand.
I mean brothers help me out here...how many times have you been somewhere and theers been a sister serving and she all chatty with the grey but the moment you step up you see her whole persona change trust me BP, it works the other way around too, but obviously you can only really see it from a mans perspective. To relate a specifc example of my own experience, there is a certain super market close to where i live that i shop in regularly. There is a Black man who works there whose whole demeanor towards me is just one of general rudeness ( i say towards ME because i cannot speak for others) . For example when ringing up the total he will just say "21.99" no smile, no "please", no t"hank you", no nothing. But he is all chatty and smiley with white folks.
Is there a collective mindset among Black men whereby they think that a Black woman, even if she is with and expresses a preference for, Black men secretly lusts after white men, and that this "lust" (shoulda used a better adjective!) is soley based on material gain? If so, then what a low opinion some brothers seem to have of their sisters. Not all Black women are shallow and materialistic, in the same way that not all black men are "thugs" etc. Its like i say, don't go looking through a barrel of rotten apples for a good one then complain when you can't find one or label all apples as bad. Simply change the barrel you are looking in.
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stick-upKid
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Posted: Monday December 11th, 2006 17:33 |
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Black_Power wrote:
I mean brothers help me out here...how many times have you been somewhere and theers been a sister serving and she all chatty with the grey but the moment you step up you see her whole persona change?..its little thinks like that accompainied with the famouse buzz words..."thug"..."streetman"..."ghetto" that got me thinking.
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On the real I think that the majority of black women only find black men attractive. Truthfully I know a black woman that dates a white guy, but yet this woman still drools at handsome black guys. She knows deep down that blackmen have a special 'je nais se quoi' that whiteboys will never attain. There are a lot of black women that would never contemplate dating white unless in extreme circumstances, but that can't be said for men.
But still, there are a few jeze's out there that will give you dirty looks if you dare to disturb their 'i'm the only black in the village' attitude, but like MB says, that works both ways too.
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kiley
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Posted: Monday December 11th, 2006 18:28 |
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| .. Last edited on Friday January 5th, 2007 21:30 by kiley
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Incognito
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Posted: Monday December 11th, 2006 20:59 |
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Stick-upkid - strangely enough i was talking to this sista about my love for dark skinned women but find it's most brown and fair skinned women who are attracted to me. She said many of our fair skinned sistas idolise black skin and don't want their own children coming out any more diluted than them. She almost made me think our fair skin sistas look at dark men in the same way a white woman would.
But I told her the true irony is many a dark skinned brotha is hooking up with the fair skinned sista for the complete opposite reason i.e. they are closer to white which kind of reverses the question...do these brothas secretly think white women are better than black...and do they feel insulted because they punk is with them because they are fair skinned
Last edited on Monday December 11th, 2006 21:04 by Incognito
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Madam Butterfly
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Posted: Monday December 11th, 2006 21:13 |
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Incognito, funnily enough your last post desribes my parents exactly. My father was very dark and had a difficult time growing up (one of his chldhood nicknames was ackee seed) and my mother had issues at the other end of the spectrum, so to speak as, if it were not for her features you would think she was white (plus she has brown hair and hazel eyes. her fathers side of the family all have grey eyes). She was also constantly picked on as a child.
So they "got with" each other to ensure their children didn't suffer in the same way. Now me and my sister are what i would describe as in between, although alot of folks refer to us as light or "red" (a term my mother despises as it is always used to desribe her).
As for me personally, i don't really reckon i have a preference either way (though my favourite dudes do happen to be dark) because i have seen the whole light/dark debate from all angles and no how ridiculous it is.
At the end of the day we are all Black.
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FredB
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Posted: Tuesday December 12th, 2006 16:40 |
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@Aryek who said 'Right, you dealt with the man yet he was being nominated as one of the 100 Greatest Black Britons by Black Britons. Lol... okay yeah, I'll get my facts right.
You cannot compare that sorry arse embarrassment of a one off book to what I have evidenced.
Oh, I think I can.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------Sis I like you so don't take this no way because I am not trying to offend, but when it clear the authority of reasoning clearly escapes people then another tact often has to be used. If you read and followed the arguments and the facts that I have layed out or you cannot challenge them which is not difficult to do. Simply do a search on black female or male done....
This is not about childish tit and tat but to understand how we got to this point.
You may not know much about England as you think. Because you make me laugh by refering to 100 Great Black Britons because if you knew how many under the belt jokes I make on those nominated or the organisers of this thing in my academic work or teaching you would not quote that foolishness in a serious argument. Any excuse I get to give them licks I will.
Have you ever studied that foolish list and who is on it and why?
Listen I am a far more respected academic than Tony Sewell let me tell you this and so are many more who are actually famous and accomplished who are not on that list because they are not the friends of those who organise it. Brothers with top international awards top professors and numero uno in their feidls who are not on that list who Sewell is a boy to.
In fact there is a joke going around about what have I done to be insulted to be on the Great 100 Black Britons...So don't quote that to serious people. That shows that you being in Canada is not a good grounds to make very informed comments about specific things in this country. Sorry sis no diss meant.
Let me also educate many of you. In this country the intelllectual big hitters, the most qualifed and most respected have always been black men from day one of our people being in this country to this day. Makes no difference how many number of our women increases in higher education, which is a positive thing which I would like to see reflected in a higher quality of debate. Would hate to think sisters I teach to a high standard would come here and chat such rubbish which has now become the standard of debate on serious things that affects us all directly and our children and future generations in Britain.
Therefore anything which is published or written which is fundamentally flawed or bogus I can guarentee you black men who are the most radical sections of our community especially the educated, will put fire and expose them. Black men got more issues with the system and know it. Black women have plenty issues with the system but put the focus elsewhere or simply don't know it.
The first published criticism and serious one at that of Spike Lee's She's Got To Have it' was mine and I took him apart. The majority of black women in this country and abroad were hailing the film as a breakthrough. Until ten years later when eitehr Michelle Wallace or Belll Hooks put fire on it quite rightly as overtly and disgustingly sexist and the reduction of black women as sexual objects.
In fact many experts (male and female) have said thier critique is far weaker or less deep and revealing than mine. I wrote mine a week after seeing it. Not ten years later, after he has made some dud films and people are asking questions so they feel more confident to take on what was an icon.
Let me repeat myself so it is not be forgotten and perhaps some sisters may learn from this if they want to improve their own lives never mind others. Black men have generally demonstrated a higher level of conciousness and sense of responsibility when talking about black women in public than vice versa.
There was this infamous headline which I will never forget as long as I live in the Journal when it first came out....Why Do Black Men Always Cuss out My Rass....
Priceless, almost classic. The jokes that brothers were bursting will remain with me for life. Talk about a fool to open something like that or allow it. Then she started to cuss basically black men, like me or my buddies would wake up next to an ugly rough looking thing like that and she had the nerve to have a massive photo of herself.
Some of you need to learn to speak English becuse when you talk about BLACK MEN you are speaking about the whole diversity of masculine humanity, not 50 cent or some young boys our young men who follow their lead. That is an insult if you knew how most black men of any generation, class or relilgious disposition spend their time. I have spoken or taught on many black led community programmes to this day where you will see some wonderful and well brought up young brothers with serious and mature and committed parents. In fact I have plenty in my family as do others. I can bore you with recent research involving interviews with young men on a whole range of stuff and they are no different than most intelligent reasonable people, despite the pressure and obstacles and threats they face. So what do you know frankly? Do you think those images of young males who kill anybody and anyhow represent the ordinary young blood or is your sense of self and identity, inseparable from the white media.
Even Sewell who in his desire for noteriety hurt himself professionally with that foolishness.
Because if you read his book, as opposed to what he pushed as his publicity lead or headlines, he makes it crystal clear that a whole heap if not the majority of black school boys actually go to school to learn and are not gangstas even if they are influence or cannot escape that culture. He also makes it clear that racism institutionalised and otherwise is the root cause for the failure etc of those same boys or their lack of interest in school. The hard core troubled youth are a minority but very disruptive and influential.
So you don't even know what you are talking about there, because you have not even read the book and I have a thousand times, using it in various pieces of work I have done or engaged in.
A final example. I mentioned the criminology conference I attended where the issue of black fathers was raised primarily from a female and white mainstream media defined point of view. I killed the argument in thirty seconds. During the break while I was speaking to the Professor a brother who I know long time and Lee Jasper who spoke as well. Jasper said this to me. Boy Fred wicked point and it reminded him of something that took place at the Greater London Police Authority. When some white academic said it is impossible examing data to conclude black men are responsible for this rise or something very similar to one of the points I made.
Anybody who is serious about dealing with facts and not rely on uniformed opinion cannot fail to come to the same conclusion.
Jasper said, even before they had time to comment on the issue, some women, predominantly white and I think one Asian and black started to kick up one hell of a fuss to the point they did not discuss the issue. Jasper ain't telling me nothing. I was one of the organisers of the first conferences and seminars to look at matters relatinig to black men in this country and spoken at more than most. He aint telling me jack.
That is why we had an all male policy on key events or when we allowed women in we made them clearly aware of our no nonsense policy and the fact we had security who don't give a f**k if they are women. A policy I developed and implemented in all my security teams and leaders. In fact Jasper and I have spoken at several conferences together back in the day which simply turned into anarchy because of female childish behviour. Since the last one I have never spoken at one again and refuse to. These women do not deserve the company of intelligent serious black men.
Check this. Jasper did not say a word when I was challenging the professor in question about what he said about black men and fathers. No but he comes in the break and said good one Freddy boy.
What do you think Lee Jasper, who is newcomer to guys like me, has not been at enough black man and women or family discussions and see how so called educated black women behave?
So it is time to grow up or die and that is the reality. As people say back home or it is a case of pickeny keeping out of big people's business because too often they don't know what the f**k they are talking about.
It is serious sign of individual limitation when you think black men are reducable to what you are use to or think. Like talking about woman if you have only known certain types, speaks volumes about you. Me I mix with nice black women and have always and that is my type. Your own personal capacities is what educates you about men or women or keeps you pig ignorant.
I can talk about various baby mother cultural politics because I have been exposed to it from time, ordinary sisters, educated or professionals and the different types and values you find, various differences in so called concious women. Because I am close to it, been out with plenty and can use my brains to think long before I read a book or a journal or newspaper article.
We are educated or limited by our own reality.
Peace.
FB
A bit like youths who think being black is ghetto. Do you know I would be rich if I took a dollar for every fool who told me that. But when we take them to the country or back home or somewhere. They start acting like man I never knew there was anything outside my little patch. Same like man and women who talk such sh*te. Should feel sorry for them as mummy says...They don't know any better.
FB
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FredB
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Posted: Tuesday December 12th, 2006 16:52 |
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@Incognito. Greetings Bro. You made the million dollar point which relates directly to issues of confused notions of manhood and families. Manhood and fatherhood is not limited to money and the quicker slow people realise that, espciallly in contexts of single parent families, you will start to be able to address this issue.
No money no manhood or father hood. Cool. So what happens when globablly this particular group is structurally and racially less likely hood to get that money?
Stupidness and too many in it.
So I have little money but you want to diss and undermine me and making it an issue vis a vis my kids. What is the likely statistical outcome.
A sister Dr Tracey Reynolds ex Birmingham Uni who is the first to do some very important research in this found women who took a different view not only had far better relationships with their childs father, extremely close and man woman business too, but also the men were more fully involved than most and when they had money gave both parties even more.
So who is the fool.
FB
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FredB
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Posted: Tuesday December 12th, 2006 17:29 |
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@Incognito said 'As my friends dad told me, as a man of discipline and self repect, you might not have made much in life but you aint takinh that sh!t from nobody'.
My old dad use to say you need to be it to know it. Too much of the discussions about black men in society are not led or actually involve black men. In fact it is everybody but most black men.
The professor I mentioned who made the comment is married to a white woman, so forth and so on. You don't have to be genius, but an ordinary balanced man to witness some of the things that happen to black fathers and understand why all things considered it is a better option to just step and keep stepping in too many situations. One reason its called 25 percent black prison population out of a community barely 2 perecnt of the nation.
From particular female perspective or those who were left behind so to speak that may be unforgivable. But so would a man losing his cool and doing a Charles Mason on somebody.
What people also forget in their stereotyping is that many missing fathers are very successful brothers who have made it the hard way up. Many are married very happy and successfully and they would be foolish to involve themselves in guerilla warfare with some immature woman. If the new woman is a better class or quality than the one left behind, jesus christ problems.
What happens if you baby mother takes up with a white boy in front of your kids and I have seen that plenty times and before you blink breed for him...The scenarios are endless.
But from my experience and speaking about my disposition as a particular type of man. I am a whole father or no father and all that goes with it. Tracey Reynolds supports that in her research insofar as men who have strong father hood experiences or tradtions not only have the most clearest views of how they want their kids raised, they are more likely to make war or walk if they are violated.
So much for stereotypes of wotless men. If my mother played the arse with my father and undermined him in key areas of his fatherhood i would have been raised in a single parent family. He would not accept it and his family would not allow him to accept it. Something would have to happen one way or another.
Black men take serious violations of self in this country and then people want to ask questions....Ask the right question to get the correct answer
FB
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TheDogon
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Posted: Tuesday December 12th, 2006 18:13 |
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Well. . .I mean. . .scientifically speaking. Black. . .er. . .Power is er. . .correct. Like look at the statistics for African outmarriage rates. Surely the rates at which Africans outmarry are extremely low. But of those rates African women have the lowest rate of outmarriage.
Well, the reason for that is because when you really want to do something, then you try your best to avoid doing it. It's been proven by er. . .Black Power's er. . .brilliant er. . .research. African women secretly crave er. . ."White" men because they are always avoiding "White" men and complaining about the outmarriage rate of er. . .African men.
You see, if they really wanted to marry African men, they would just let us do what we wanted to do n'stuff.
And another thing, why come you don't here African women talking about mixed raced African men. Why come African women don't come to this forum drooling over Tiger Woods or Derek Jeter?
Why?
Because they are er. . .racists! Racists against er. . .the mixed raced confused males n'stuff. It's like a love/hate relationship. They pretend to hate them because they are confused and mixed race, but at the same time they love them and are trying to get in with them n'stuff because they er. . .love er. . .mixed-raced confused Cablasians. . .n'stuff.
Brilliant er. . .deduction er. . .Black "Sherlock Holmes" Power.
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Black_Power
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Posted: Tuesday December 12th, 2006 18:25 |
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lol man you too late to comeback...besides I already proven you p***y..so your wasting you time.
but your welcome to follow m around if you wish..but please dont jump the que.
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kiley
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Posted: Tuesday December 12th, 2006 19:02 |
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| ... Last edited on Tuesday December 12th, 2006 21:45 by kiley
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Incognito
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Posted: Wednesday December 13th, 2006 10:30 |
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Brotha FredB - Got responsible men who make it their duty to be in a position to provide for wife and child to the degree the wife doesn't have to work if she doesn't want to i.e. the children come first yet the women are actually competing with men as a declaration of independance...the last people they are thinking about is the children. I'd respect a babymother for going on the dole if it means she raises them children the way they should be.
Got a brotha who had to divorce his wife because what he thought he was doing for the family she was doing for herself. To this day she sees her financial contributions as helping him where he thought she was making contributions for the same reason as him....to benefit the children. From the marriage, to the house they bought, he was doingit for the yoots she thought he was doing it for her...that's how self-centred people can be. To the degree if my man asked her to put money towards raising her children she wouldn't have done it but if it was going into a property then hell yeah! Financing the children is the mans job, no money no children, the mans money means the woman can get on with their own careers.
Her biggest argument now is it wasn't the brotha didn't move her out of her mothers house..and this is a woman who was legally entitled by marriage yet still running up her mouth to say 'you didn't do nothing for me, I paid my own way'. The brotha openly admits he did not move her out......he moved his children out - she simply benefited by being the wife and mother.
The same woman is now defending herself, her career and her independance to the hilt but put her in front of a judge and she's the perfect mother who puts her children before anything. Women trying to be men but with a womans brain - they haven't got a clue about what actually drives the leaders of the pack....even worse when they actually believe it's them and are cheeky enough to want to challenge your leadership because they've got you where they want you and babylon's got their back. Play with the principles of these men to your own peril. We cut of our noses to spite our face cause there's plenty more nose where that one came from...and too right, the first words to come from her mouth is wotliss man and absent father...the real babymother come out a dem now..even more bizarre when the children are more than welcome to stay with the pops.
It's like everybody wants to put down the African man so everybody else joins in...including other African men and women....the competetion and the rivalry is on our own doorstep and inside our own homes. Many of our own see us exactly the same way as outsiders do.....there's even argument to suggest it's the outsiders who see us in exactly the same way we see ourselves.
Last edited on Wednesday December 13th, 2006 12:08 by Incognito
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yuntty
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Posted: Wednesday December 13th, 2006 13:37 |
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| I mean sisters help me out here, haven't you noticed that you could be out (U kno a bunch of lovely choclate sisters and mixed/asian looking sister) and the choclate brotha is checking one of the choclate sisters out on a normal smile and nod style only to clock the asian looking mixed sis in d crew and lose his mind and become "foolish" almost foaming at the mouth with lust and kissing her feet before she speaks, now as that sis its quite iritating and annoying to have to try to get the other sisters not to get pissed when it happens so often..I mean sisters how would you handle it,do some blackmen have issues??
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blackbutterfly182
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Posted: Wednesday December 13th, 2006 17:00 |
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