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Black_Power
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Posted: Tuesday September 19th, 2006 11:23 |
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25 years ago this thing was found primarily in gay white men...now its primarily in the black community particularly in black women.
Is it just me or does this NOT make any frigging sense whatsoever?
How come NO ONE is questioning why or how?
How does a disease jump from one demographic to another (SKIPPING OVER white women mind you)?
If a disease that was primarily found in gay black men suddenly started infecting hetero white women in huge numbers there would be congressional hearings, exposes' and funded scientific investigations into finding out:
HOW this happened...
WHO is responsible...
and HOW can you send it BACK (not stem it or eradicate it but put it BACK into its original population).
Yet so far it seems to me that all we get is stats and numbers that don't add up and its accepted.
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BIG L
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Posted: Tuesday September 19th, 2006 11:37 |
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Back in the 70’s some U.S president said that they wanted 3 billion off the planet. Because people in the third world out number the ones in the first world. Some say HIV in a manufactured germ engineered in a U.S lab. They spread it all over Africa via the pre-text of helping to eradicate small pox in Africa??
You known which newspaper that ran the story, it was an Indian paper!!
shizzle my bizzle of all people…
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Backatya
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Posted: Tuesday September 19th, 2006 12:27 |
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@ Black_Power
I must commend you for asking a question which I have often wondered, "Has this even crossed the mind of most black people to ask?"
The many debates/discussions I have got into on the "Aids phenomenon" have, more often than not, left me bemused and bewildered (and somewhat frustrated). As a consequence I now tend to avoid them because of finding myself having to deal with a 'conditioned perspective' (i.e. black peoples) rather than a serious desire to get to the truth (and the bottom) of this whole 'Aids in Africa' thing.
There is a lot about Aids which "does not add up", but how far or deep one is prepared to look into the "why doesn't it add up" is another matter.
I shall delay contributing, and watch this thread's development with interest to see if my cynicism (borne out of many a frustrated discussion) proves itself to be well founded once again.
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DtotheJ
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Posted: Tuesday September 19th, 2006 13:58 |
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BT, Originally american media reported AIDS as being more likely to affect the 4 Hs..
homsexuals, hemophiliacs, haitians, and I forget what the last h was...
Many people at the time didn't beleive that aids was real....and didn't feel they belonged to any of the at-risk groups...so they continued dangerous sexual habits(that, even if aids didn't exist, exposed them to STDs)
instead of protecting themselves....they felt safe because in their minds it didn't have anything to do with THEM......
The black clergy, initially buried their heads in sand over the issue....saying it was a curse from god......
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Peacemaker
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Posted: Tuesday September 19th, 2006 14:08 |
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Black_Power wrote: 25 years ago this thing was found primarily in gay white men...now its primarily in the black community particularly in black women.
Is it just me or does this NOT make any frigging sense whatsoever?
How come NO ONE is questioning why or how?
How does a disease jump from one demographic to another (SKIPPING OVER white women mind you)?
If a disease that was primarily found in gay black men suddenly started infecting hetero white women in huge numbers there would be congressional hearings, exposes' and funded scientific investigations into finding out:
HOW this happened...
WHO is responsible...
and HOW can you send it BACK (not stem it or eradicate it but put it BACK into its original population).
Yet so far it seems to me that all we get is stats and numbers that don't add up and its accepted.
Judging by that then I can think of two things.
Lots more people have than they're letting on, i.e white people, especially the women. Considering that they seem to be the most sexually active group out there would suggest that they have got it in greater numbers than are reported.
Or perhaps the whole virus is exaggerated because in my whole lifetime I've only met one person with HIV. She was going out with this lad for 2 years and he somehow magically didn't contract it in that time....they are white by the way.
I would say this, if you wanted to spread something around the world effectively, you'd have to keep the main method of it being spread a secret, so it's probably the people who you'd typically think wouldn't have it, that have for the most part. "If" it exists in the way that it has been reported. Which I have my doubts about.
Personally I find it hard to believe that Europe and the America's isn't suffering with the virus as much as Africa is now.
As for as I can see it's the Europeans that shag anything that moves so they should be the ones with the "problem".
Not much about HIV and AIDS adds up at all.. I will say it's a virus that seems to help keep certain African nations distracted and in poverty. Typically when people are more concerned about their health they have little time to do or think about anything else.
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ChubbiChix
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Posted: Tuesday September 19th, 2006 15:55 |
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| That is a good question, before only gay whites, dope fiends and a few haitians had it now its an epidemic for blacks all over the world over a pretty short period of time. To me it sounds like a conspiracy to wipe out a large number of blacks internationally.
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Saida.M
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Posted: Tuesday September 19th, 2006 18:19 |
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This conspiracy is old - I'm surprised no-one is saying so.
I remember approximately nine years ago, emailing a supposed AIDS 'help' website asking very similar questions.
One of them was how if a monkey, (note the singular), was infected that AN ENTIRE CONTINENT is seemingly contaminated?
That was where they said AIDS stem from, (yep that was the preposterous theory back then - probably still is).
The final question I asked was, why then did HIV not occur much sooner considering the MILLIONS of years Africa has been in existence?
The emails were going back and fourth pretty quick each one getting smashed by me. Then I asked that last one.
They still have not replied.
Lol.
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DtotheJ
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Posted: Tuesday September 19th, 2006 18:36 |
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People are right nt to trust what government tells you BUT..you have to do other things to educate yourself about what the true reality is....
Government mentioned marginalized, stigmatized groups at first..so no tmany people outside of those groups cared....how the virus seemed to be linked to specific groups like that...
by not caring.."oh it's only gays and Haitians"..... people set themselves up for what's happened over the past 20 years...... namely the spread of this killer.......
Another example of short term thinking by our so called leadership.
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Tuesday September 19th, 2006 20:52 |
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This may assist you: (warning site is accompanied by music)
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MarcusGarveyLives
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Posted: Tuesday September 19th, 2006 20:54 |
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... as might this: HIV/AIDS The Untold Story (warning - site is accompanied by music)
Last edited on Tuesday September 19th, 2006 21:03 by MarcusGarveyLives
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ChubbiChix
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Posted: Wednesday September 20th, 2006 03:24 |
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It seems like everything from AIDS to heart dieases affects blacks disportionately. Everything bad seems to affect us the most from mental to physical problems. I just read in the news paper that said black women get more yeast infections and vaginitis then white women. I was like god damn.
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Aryek
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Posted: Friday September 22nd, 2006 17:51 |
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Good post.
This question has always baffled me. I don't know when AIDS became an African problem. When I living in Ghana in the early 90's, AIDS was a Western disease. I remember hearing all these reports on CNN about the AIDS epidemic in America and how I would listen to the eldest express concern about Western diseases coming to the continent. I've never agreed with these theories of some African becoming infected with Aids by eating or sleeping with a monkey. If that were the case then how the hell did gay white men from half way across the world become it's first victims? I know full well that the problem already existed in the West before it became an African problem.
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Black_Power
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Posted: Friday September 22nd, 2006 17:58 |
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man I baight that idea anyway...
can you imagine how hard (not to mention DANGEROUS) it would be to hold a monkey down then try to fukk it?? sound damm near impossible
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HatHaruhotep
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Posted: Friday September 22nd, 2006 18:08 |
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Good question.
It makes perfect sense when you consider Black culture (worldwide) over the past 25 years. We have jumped into the gutter and became a race of baby mamas. It does not matter whether you go to Jamaica, Panama, Nigeria, New York or New Orleans. Sexuality has always been a part of Afrikan culture. Unlike the unnatural crackers, we embrace the physical aspects of sex as a natural part of the spirit's journey on Earth. So even if you go back to old blues songs from the 1920's, you will find references to sex.
The difference is that it was understood that those topics were taboo, so they were hidden in metaphor. It required an ARTISTIC mind to create this type of music. Today we explain everything from oral sex to booty licking in our lyrics and are apparently very proud of the fact that many young sisters are little more than sperm deposit boxes for every Tom, Dick, and TraeShawn. These are all stereotypes and we have busied ourselves with living DOWN to them.
When you watch that self-hating prostitute Beyonce inviting men to "check up on it", and when you listen to all of the coon rap about strippers, you should put it in context with what is happening in our Afrikan world. If you juxtapose all of the stripping and whoring and indiscriminate sexual activity with the poverty, fatherlessness, and HIV rates of Black people, you will find that it's not so cute after all.
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Backatya
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Posted: Friday September 22nd, 2006 18:21 |
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HatHaruhotep wrote: Sexuality has always been a part of Afrikan culture.
I am going to refrain from commenting on the rest of your comments, because I am not thoroughly convinced you gave them much thought before hand, or that you actually believe what you said....sounds too incredulous to me.
However, that one snippet had me....let's say.....rather bemused. I was like "Sexuality has always been a part of Afrikan culture...hmmm
What, unlike in other cultures where it plays no part whatsover? 
Respect
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Mezmerized
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Posted: Friday September 22nd, 2006 19:56 |
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A lot of people have had their say about the issue of HIV/AIDS within African communities worldwide...yet no one IMHO has really, i mean REALLY looked at it from the stand point of HOW it became an African problem. I believe this is due to the fact that MAJORITY of the people who are actually making MORE noise about in the OPEN are not Africans themselves....so what we have is the patern(just as with everything else) where outsiders have more ideas or opinions about how it became an African problem.
Having had personal close experience of HIV, i trully belive the reason it has affected us more than any other race is pure and simple: IGNORANCE!
I can honestly say that from the moment i could understand what HIV was when i was litle to NOW...nothing has changed in regards to the attitude of Africans when it comes to facing up to the reality of HIV/AIDS.
When i was little i saw one person after another who were courageous enough to tell everyone being shunned and driven to early graves because of Africans' reluctance to DEAL with ANY issues that they may find CHALENGING.
Families would turn against each other, friends would shun their friends and so on. Because of the SUICIDAL colonial sex education muddled up with ignorant understanding of RELIGIONS, Africans went into frenzy of attacks against anyone who came up and declared that they were HIV+
And in 2006, we are reaping the consenquences of this IGNORANCE...we are reanacting the Bible stories of lepers and so on.....Because of our COLLECTIVE ignorance and over religious cultures, we have raised a whole generation after generation of people who are not mature and educated enough to face up to the realities of this epidemic.
In Africa and here, i have witnessed people who react to this culture of "keeping your lip shut" by living a lie and therefore going around passing this disease to others with MALICIOUS intentions of taking as many with them as posible.....and i have heard people in the West, Africans included, say that these people are just pure evil without realising that they are merely living a life of ignorance and denial which their communities encourages majority of times.
But my point is this, It does not matter what you think of them, at the end of the day, the community suffers beyond repair each time one of us is diagnosed, yet feels that he or she is an EVIL person anyways....so whats the point of trying to be good to a community that teaches you day in day out that sex is dirty, and if you catch anything, you are evil(even though we know that we are an over sexed bunch of idiots with no control once we see ass, vagina, penis etc (delete as appropriate)
Many might not identify with what i am saying here, but what i am writing is what i have seen back in Africa and experienced in more than 3 African countries which i lived in previously.
Both men and women are still living back in the early 20th century colonial education which really sucks the INTELLIGENCE and COMMON SENSE out of them. Add that missionary style RELIGIOUS nonesense and you have a whole bunch of millions who live in denial after denial about their life styles.
African men and women's conduct to sex is crossing that animalistic nature where no one CARES to really examine what they are doing. As a young woman, i am sure other sisters can back me on this, i have come across African men who would rather go cold turkey then wear a CONDOM.....and this is the case 9.9% of the time. African men HATES condoms like no other men on this earth....even if he is married with a family, he would rather put his family in danger than wear a condom if he is cheating. I have had MOST men say that kissing is more intimate than sex...... How they come up with that, i don't know.
African women in turn are just not there yet with CONFIDENCE and the ability to be ASSERTIVE to judge whom they decide to have unprotective sex with. Just a few weeks ago, my cousin's friend asked her boyfriend to go get tasted....he REFUSED....yet the stupid woman decided to let it go and continued to sleep with him unprotected! And this is NORMAL behaviour with MILLIONS of African women.....i don't know about the Caribbean and the US, but in Africa, its the f**kingg NORM for women to just "trust" him that he is clean!! **sighs**
My aunty is a midwife here in the UK and 99% of the PREGNANT African women who have to get tasted for HIV are ALWAYS mad nervous...most even confiding in her that they were NOT sure if they were healthy or not.....which she is always asking WHY?? Why get pregnant by a man that you are not even sure is healthy and faithful to YOU?? Lets just say she has never goten a clear answer. The closest she has come to an answer is that African women keep repeating that OUR men hates condoms and that they are mostly sure that he might be playing around. The opinions of C African women is VERY worrying and unless there is MASS education to combat this, the whole continent is going to get worse in regards to HIV/AIDS rates!
We need to TALK about this untill we are exausted from talking!! We need to stop shunning our people who are HIV+, find ways to provide cheap life saving medicines so the sufferers do not feel like they are alone and its them against the closed minded masses.
We need to REAVALUATE our approaches to sex education EQUALLY amongst our men and women.....but ESPECIALLY our YOUTHS.
We need to admit that poverty=unhealthy cultures where members of African communities the world over feels more disulusioned in many ways than is good for any society to progress.
Finally, we need to OPEN our eyes, be open minded about our friends and family members who come to us if they are diagnosed with HIV, make them feel that they are STILL valuable members of our societies who can still live a fullfiling life and SHOULD take responsibilities for everyone else when it comes to sex.
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stick-upKid
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Posted: Friday September 22nd, 2006 21:47 |
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case closed.
that's about as comprehensive an answer as you're gonna get.
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The Watcher
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Posted: Friday September 22nd, 2006 21:57 |
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| post of the day @ mez
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Mezmerized
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Posted: Friday September 22nd, 2006 22:33 |
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@Stick Up and TW...cheers bros
I wish i could say more....i don't know why but HIV/AIDS(amongst agriculture and education) has been worrying me more and more recently when it comes to Africa. My whole outlook has changed as i am educating myself more and more about it.
I have lost some distant relatives to this disease and i just want to shout my lungs out to our people to open their eyes and see that this is not the end of the tunel....we Africans can over come this....surely we have been through worse than this before. We cannot afford to be lazy about this....last time i encompanied a friend to the clininic, i was in tears(and i hardly cry..lol) when the nurse told us that 9 out of ten of C Africans/Afri-Caribbeans who are diagnosed are usually found to be HIV+ when they come in to hospital for ANOTHER illness.
I think there is only two reasons for, 1) is our own ignorance and complacency and 2) is straight out FEAR that our people have that if they were to be found to be HIV+, their lives would be over.....they will be shunned by their dearests and closests so they just carry on dispite having an ikling that something could be wrong.
In light of this, whites will NEVER understand why the rates is higher amongst Africans.....because they will never really look at it from the micro levels like WE can. All i know is that the West is bent on making billions out of their own people by claiming pure lies about FIGHTING AIDS in Africa...... As an African i know that this is all rubbish.....just like with everything else, only WE can do this because only WE can speak to our people in the language they understand!
@BP...i am still puzzled, you said that people with HIV should be shunned and taken care of, yet you go ahead and create this thread to try to UNDERSTAND about the situation.....perhaps its good that you did, because you have just proved my point here!
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FredB
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Posted: Friday September 22nd, 2006 23:54 |
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@BP said'can you imagine how hard (not to mention DANGEROUS) it would be to hold a monkey down then try to fukk it?? sound damm near impossible
------------------------------------------------------------
Nope but trust me them white folk would try it.
@All two factors, the external which is about the orchastration of public opinion, then science and academia and media. Second factor has been brilliantly outlined by Mez.
Does open your eyes though when we consider how we romantically and ignorantly view sexual attitudes and conduct in Africa, because some of them boys put us in the Diaspora to shame. But I have heard from Southern African men about how a whole heap of them view condomns and ignorance is not the word.
Interestingly, the Aids rate in the Caribbean is relatively small. Probably because they run to America and die there. But still interesting because the amount of unprotected sex is high and can be seen by the baby mother business booming...
FB
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HatHaruhotep
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Posted: Friday September 22nd, 2006 23:55 |
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Backatya wrote: HatHaruhotep wrote: Sexuality has always been a part of Afrikan culture.
I am going to refrain from commenting on the rest of your comments, because I am not thoroughly convinced you gave them much thought before hand, or that you actually believe what you said....sounds too incredulous to me.
However, that one snippet had me....let's say.....rather bemused. I was like "Sexuality has always been a part of Afrikan culture...hmmm
What, unlike in other cultures where it plays no part whatsover?
Respect
Of course it plays a part in other cultures, but this role is not always celebrated. One example is the catholics who only believe you should have sex when trying to procreate. Sex in this context takes on a functional role and cannot be counted as an act centering on attraction and pleasure.
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CashMoney
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Posted: Saturday September 23rd, 2006 08:01 |
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Mezmerized wrote: A lot of people have had their say about the issue of HIV/AIDS within African communities worldwide...yet no one IMHO has really, i mean REALLY looked at it from the stand point of HOW it became an African problem. I believe this is due to the fact that MAJORITY of the people who are actually making MORE noise about in the OPEN are not Africans themselves....so what we have is the patern(just as with everything else) where outsiders have more ideas or opinions about how it became an African problem.
Having had personal close experience of HIV, i trully belive the reason it has affected us more than any other race is pure and simple: IGNORANCE!
I can honestly say that from the moment i could understand what HIV was when i was litle to NOW...nothing has changed in regards to the attitude of Africans when it comes to facing up to the reality of HIV/AIDS.
When i was little i saw one person after another who were courageous enough to tell everyone being shunned and driven to early graves because of Africans' reluctance to DEAL with ANY issues that they may find CHALENGING.
Families would turn against each other, friends would shun their friends and so on. Because of the SUICIDAL colonial sex education muddled up with ignorant understanding of RELIGIONS, Africans went into frenzy of attacks against anyone who came up and declared that they were HIV+
And in 2006, we are reaping the consenquences of this IGNORANCE...we are reanacting the Bible stories of lepers and so on.....Because of our COLLECTIVE ignorance and over religious cultures, we have raised a whole generation after generation of people who are not mature and educated enough to face up to the realities of this epidemic.
In Africa and here, i have witnessed people who react to this culture of "keeping your lip shut" by living a lie and therefore going around passing this disease to others with MALICIOUS intentions of taking as many with them as posible.....and i have heard people in the West, Africans included, say that these people are just pure evil without realising that they are merely living a life of ignorance and denial which their communities encourages majority of times.
But my point is this, It does not matter what you think of them, at the end of the day, the community suffers beyond repair each time one of us is diagnosed, yet feels that he or she is an EVIL person anyways....so whats the point of trying to be good to a community that teaches you day in day out that sex is dirty, and if you catch anything, you are evil(even though we know that we are an over sexed bunch of idiots with no control once we see ass, vagina, penis etc (delete as appropriate)
Many might not identify with what i am saying here, but what i am writing is what i have seen back in Africa and experienced in more than 3 African countries which i lived in previously.
Both men and women are still living back in the early 20th century colonial education which really sucks the INTELLIGENCE and COMMON SENSE out of them. Add that missionary style RELIGIOUS nonesense and you have a whole bunch of millions who live in denial after denial about their life styles.
African men and women's conduct to sex is crossing that animalistic nature where no one CARES to really examine what they are doing. As a young woman, i am sure other sisters can back me on this, i have come across African men who would rather go cold turkey then wear a CONDOM.....and this is the case 9.9% of the time. African men HATES condoms like no other men on this earth....even if he is married with a family, he would rather put his family in danger than wear a condom if he is cheating. I have had MOST men say that kissing is more intimate than sex...... How they come up with that, i don't know.
African women in turn are just not there yet with CONFIDENCE and the ability to be ASSERTIVE to judge whom they decide to have unprotective sex with. Just a few weeks ago, my cousin's friend asked her boyfriend to go get tasted....he REFUSED....yet the stupid woman decided to let it go and continued to sleep with him unprotected! And this is NORMAL behaviour with MILLIONS of African women.....i don't know about the Caribbean and the US, but in Africa, its the f**kingg NORM for women to just "trust" him that he is clean!! **sighs**
My aunty is a midwife here in the UK and 99% of the PREGNANT African women who have to get tasted for HIV are ALWAYS mad nervous...most even confiding in her that they were NOT sure if they were healthy or not.....which she is always asking WHY?? Why get pregnant by a man that you are not even sure is healthy and faithful to YOU?? Lets just say she has never goten a clear answer. The closest she has come to an answer is that African women keep repeating that OUR men hates condoms and that they are mostly sure that he might be playing around. The opinions of C African women is VERY worrying and unless there is MASS education to combat this, the whole continent is going to get worse in regards to HIV/AIDS rates!
We need to TALK about this untill we are exausted from talking!! We need to stop shunning our people who are HIV+, find ways to provide cheap life saving medicines so the sufferers do not feel like they are alone and its them against the closed minded masses.
We need to REAVALUATE our approaches to sex education EQUALLY amongst our men and women.....but ESPECIALLY our YOUTHS.
We need to admit that poverty=unhealthy cultures where members of African communities the world over feels more disulusioned in many ways than is good for any society to progress.
Finally, we need to OPEN our eyes, be open minded about our friends and family members who come to us if they are diagnosed with HIV, make them feel that they are STILL valuable members of our societies who can still live a fullfiling life and SHOULD take responsibilities for everyone else when it comes to sex.
BEST. POST. EVER ! 
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Posted: Saturday September 23rd, 2006 11:49 |
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Mez: I must join the chorus and say that your post must be one of the BEST posts I've ever read on BNV over my ten years here..respect!!!
Taking the theme of your point on board I hav e to be very honest I have no idea how i would respond to someone with HIV....I've not had to face that yet thank god. I would also agree that as man I hate condoms and I'd rather not have sex than wear one, so you're right it will be a tough task getting men, nevermind African men to accept Condoms..
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Posted: Saturday September 23rd, 2006 21:17 |
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Wicked post @Mez
I notice also that the most seriously vulnerable seem to be those who don’t date as much or are dating for the first time, because of lack of confidence, viewing sex as dirty, shameful and or mistakes thinking just because they are clean and responsible the other person who they choose to sleep with will be just as clean and as responsible as they are, hence why they choose him/her in the first place. That's why so many young people in Africa most of them having sex for the first time find themselves dying of the disease.
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Shemsi en Tehuti
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Posted: Sunday September 24th, 2006 16:02 |
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@ Mez
The apprehension and fear of getting tested is a reality amongst all Africans I think. We have been thus programmed in the West and the world over to believe that those diagnosed with HIV/AIDS are instantly relegated to a status of sub-human. It is interesting because last week, there was a HIV awareness drive here in Florida where you could get what was called an "Instant HIV Test". There were reports on the Black radio stations that the Black people were extremely nervous and irritable while waiting for the results. To most people waiting, an "instant test" meant a blink of an eye, but the results took 20 minutes and those were probably the longest 20 minutes of many of those folk's life.
I am very sexually conscious where I have no problem wearing a condom. A couple sisters I used to be with actually wanted me to not use a condom, and was a bit frustrated that I wouldn't have sex otherwise. I fully know how much better it feels without, but the only way I take the rubber off is if I am in a loving and committed relationship. Like most people, I love sex; hence why if not in a relationship I try limiting my female prospects only to long term candidates.
Since you have had personal encounters with HIV-infected persons, perhaps you could shed some light on possible misconceptions. Have you witnessed seemingly healthy African people diagnosed with HIV, but then only become fatally ill after taking the preferential medicine by the West and its pharmaceutical corporations? I have heard stories time and time again both from Africa and in America that they say the drugs kill the HIV virus (which they cannot actually find under a microscope); however also kills mostly all organic tissues whether infected by a virus or not. It sometimes seems that we are trying to cure HIV/AIDS the same backwards way Europeans did before African & Arab medicinal influence when they used to bleed their patient's to death trying to get the disease out the system. This is how America's first president, George Washington died, and the physicians at the time said, "it's a shame, he could have given more blood". I am just wondering, in your opinion (or anyone who cares to answer), is this what we are doing to African people in regards to HIV?
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Posted: Sunday September 24th, 2006 17:36 |
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Passionate post but I'm afraid mez it did not explain how for millions of years this disease was not recognised as such does it?
I may be missing something but we know A.I.D.S is out there but I'm just not convinced about the 'how'.
I also find it hard to understand the whitemans 'findings' because of all the ridiculous theories, (not to mention previous lies), already put out there by them.
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Posted: Sunday September 24th, 2006 17:57 |
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Saida.M wrote: Passionate post but I'm afraid mez it did not explain how for millions of years this disease was not recognised as such does it?
I may be missing something but we know A.I.D.S is out there but I'm just not convinced about the 'how'.
I also find it hard to understand the whitemans 'findings' because of all the ridiculous theories, (not to mention previous lies), already put out there by them.
This is why I posed the question of whether seemingly healthy otherwise Africans are being diagnosed with HIV and only become sick after the destructive medications taken. I have read that scientists have not even found the virus under a microscope, but all the tests simply test for antibody counts and such which can be influenced simply by the diet of some persons. This is why there are many false positives because you may eat something, then take an HIV test within 24 hours and come out HIV-positive. You can go back months later and be HIV-negative. In the meantime, if you had taken up those drugs, you would have been even sicker for they kill all organic tissues whether virus-stricken or not.
They even had to classify "African AIDS" because it doesn't have the same biological symptons (supposedly) as Asian and European AIDS. Not much of a science. I don't trust anything these malicious cavemen say.
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Posted: Sunday September 24th, 2006 18:25 |
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There is no doubt that there is something out there killing Africans in millions, it was killing them before the medication was distributed when people assumed they were dying of influenza, TB, malaria etc.
I also don’t think Mezs post was focussing on the how it was created I think I can safely say that most of us believe it was created in a lab, but you’ll have to admit that a lot of Continental Africans do play with their lives and do everything Mez mentioned in her post I.e. the sunning of victims, the way most think they are invincible and do love to leave everything to Jesus.
I personally have only ever met one person (white lesbian lol) who was HIV+. That was my first experience of Africans fear and miseducation regarding aids. I noticed how she was treated like a normal person by the whites while Africans (and this is mid 90s) completely shunned her. One thing that stuck to my mind was when we all took a trip out some where in Wales and we had to take turns to cook dinner every night and the night it was her turn to make dinner all of the sudden all the Africans were to full to eat and it had nothing to do with her cooking.
Last edited on Sunday September 24th, 2006 18:25 by Abissinia
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Posted: Sunday September 24th, 2006 18:25 |
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Shemsi en Tehuti wrote: Saida.M wrote:
Not much of a science. I don't trust anything these malicious cavemen say.
Exactly! Ignorance is one thing but so is trust.
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Posted: Sunday September 24th, 2006 19:10 |
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Shemsi en Tehuti wrote: @ Mez
Since you have had personal encounters with HIV-infected persons, perhaps you could shed some light on possible misconceptions. Have you witnessed seemingly healthy African people diagnosed with HIV, but then only become fatally ill after taking the preferential medicine by the West and its pharmaceutical corporations?
Yes i have witnessed only one person can worse after diagnosis....but it was more to do with the trauma and depression of being shunned by your loved one and everyone treating them like lepers. This is what they the sufferers have said time after time. It is a well known fact that majority of Africans who die of HIV/AIDS actually die of other stress/depressinve ilnesses rather than the disease itself. If its the Western medicines that we are so worried about, then we should work our damn hard to develop our own. I am sick and tired of hearing Africans complain MORE about the West rather than actually changing their own mentality of how to deal with HIV/AIDS. For a people who love everything white, its ONLY with HIV/AIDS that we suddenly think whitey gets it wrong. Why? Because we don't want to face up to it....its better to live in ignorance and shag like careless dogs rather than actually facing the brutal truth that sex in the 21st century has DEADLY repercusions therefore we have to be more carefull.....and care about each other. I have heard stories time and time again both from Africa and in America that they say the drugs kill the HIV virus (which they cannot actually find under a microscope); however also kills mostly all organic tissues whether infected by a virus or not. It sometimes seems that we are trying to cure HIV/AIDS the same backwards way Europeans did before African & Arab medicinal influence when they used to bleed their patient's to death trying to get the disease out the system. This is how America's first president, George Washington died, and the physicians at the time said, "it's a shame, he could have given more blood". I am just wondering, in your opinion (or anyone who cares to answer), is this what we are doing to African people in regards to HIV?
Again what does this got to do with us being FIRST and foremost responsible? As i said before, all this conspiracy theories ONLY serve to nourish our ignorance.....yes those medicines are not totally the be it all to cure HIV the way we want it. But then again what do you expect? Its THEM who are creating them, YOU Africans are still too busy talking conspiracies to even seat down to draw up a plan.
Its like saying that since Breat Cancer is deadly in black women even with Western medicines, hence the diagnosis of breast cancer is wrong and we should just concentrate more on talking about how bad western diets are bad for you. Honestly, what is it going to take for us to wake up?
We have reached a stage where DEBATING about WHERE HIV/AIDS came from is FRUITLESS......we MOST likely will never really get anyy conclusive answers. What we need right now is us doing more research on our own turf to get to the button of it. but we will NEVER get to any solution as long as we live in denial of its existence and ignorance towards the victims.
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Posted: Sunday September 24th, 2006 19:11 |
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| **double** Last edited on Sunday September 24th, 2006 19:14 by Mezmerized
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Posted: Sunday September 24th, 2006 19:30 |
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Saida.M wrote: Passionate post but I'm afraid mez it did not explain how for millions of years this disease was not recognised as such does it? And what will that achieve in the here and now when MILLIONS of Africans are dying? Perhaps i have misread you, but i get what you are trying to say with me being "passionate" is really like trying to pat me in the back for being a weeny emotional about it but really NONE of what i said will make a damn different untill YOU find out about how the disease came to be recognised as HIV/AIDS? well i have heard it all before.....yet people are still dying.....so what do YOU want?
I may be missing something but we know A.I.D.S is out there but I'm just not convinced about the 'how'.
I also find it hard to understand the whitemans 'findings' because of all the ridiculous theories, (not to mention previous lies), already put out there by them. Again, my point as Abs pointed out is NOT to do magic here in an internet forum to find out about ALL the hows and blah blahh.....people are dying NOW.....what do YOU suggest we do in the NOW to help us save millions of African lives? And for the love of maat, please, can we posibly have just ONE discussion without bringing in the white man's conspirancy theories? We all know already that there is something fishy about the disease and how it became to be more prevalent in Africa....however, HOW it became a WORLD WIDE African problem is what i care MORE about....and my opening post was trying to get to that. I care MORE about how we Africans REACTS to HIV/AIDS rather than us DRAINING our energies with unqualified judgements about the hows with white man this/that. Let the African scientists who are qualified to do that......but what i am suggesting here is what WE the PEOPLE can do to change our atittude and educate our masses about PREVENTATIVE measures.
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Shemsi en Tehuti
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Posted: Sunday September 24th, 2006 20:30 |
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Mezmerized wrote: Shemsi en Tehuti wrote: I have heard stories time and time again both from Africa and in America that they say the drugs kill the HIV virus (which they cannot actually find under a microscope); however also kills mostly all organic tissues whether infected by a virus or not. It sometimes seems that we are trying to cure HIV/AIDS the same backwards way Europeans did before African & Arab medicinal influence when they used to bleed their patient's to death trying to get the disease out the system. This is how America's first president, George Washington died, and the physicians at the time said, "it's a shame, he could have given more blood". I am just wondering, in your opinion (or anyone who cares to answer), is this what we are doing to African people in regards to HIV?
Again what does this got to do with us being FIRST and foremost responsible? As i said before, all this conspiracy theories ONLY serve to nourish our ignorance.....yes those medicines are not totally the be it all to cure HIV the way we want it. But then again what do you expect? Its THEM who are creating them, YOU Africans are still too busy talking conspiracies to even seat down to draw up a plan.
Its like saying that since Breat Cancer is deadly in black women even with Western medicines, hence the diagnosis of breast cancer is wrong and we should just concentrate more on talking about how bad western diets are bad for you. Honestly, what is it going to take for us to wake up?
We have reached a stage where DEBATING about WHERE HIV/AIDS came from is FRUITLESS......we MOST likely will never really get anyy conclusive answers. What we need right now is us doing more research on our own turf to get to the button of it. but we will NEVER get to any solution as long as we live in denial of its existence and ignorance towards the victims.
I think you missed my point Mez. I was not debating where HIV came from or anything like that. In actuality, my point was a lead in to your notions that we should simply develop our own medicines. I have read that the drugs for HIV kill both your good organisms and bad in the body, therefore, people tend to get even sicker after taking them. Considering that, it is a lead in to us being responsible to make our own medicines. There is no conspiracy being talked about here.
I am just trying to think of how to possibly save African lives here by looking at how we treat HIV. That's all. Hotep sis...
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Posted: Sunday September 24th, 2006 20:46 |
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:@Mez one second. It is not fruitless to try to identify the source of this disease and how it was first introduced into the human population as it does not exist in nature. This is an important area of scientific intervention and we neeed answers.
The notion that discussion of the above eliminates premptive action is a false notion and probably applied to the type of ignorant people who would not be interested in the origins of Aids anyhow.
One discussion does not eliminate the other, even though I think it causes is more pertinent in the scientific/academic community, while the other is basic sexual health education and good practice.
Putting on condoms etc will reduce sickness and death but does not answer how this thing was introduced and what is its make up or intrinsic charctersitcs and can other forms of disease be introduced to us and who is doing this work..
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Posted: Monday September 25th, 2006 06:38 |
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Yes it is important to see HOW it got their so that prevention measures can be put in place to prevent another virulant activilty occuring
HOWEVER
attitude adjustment needs to re-adjusted........starting by stopping the *praising* the biggest mistake of tradition of * polygmy* or acceptable affairs......as we are aware their is no way to spread HIV then by pursuing several partners without condoms.
an excellent pHD thesis by Sudanease woman Dr Amna Swar Eldahab Population Studies found that when she travelled to rural areas in Sudan, condoms is a swear word, it is only when she asked the woman in total confidence that the true picture is leaked out ie husband will not wear it, wearing condoms gives you disease, makes you infertile etc.
In catholitism and those among fundemental sectors of religion, contraceptives is seen as a bad thing full stop.
then the ridiculus notion that sleeping with a virgin will cure you....
Husbands who are rural travellers sleep with prostitutes, other wives, gf and come and infect their wives who go on to have HIV positive children.
and before someone comes with * but but but look at grey people.........* don't give a rats ass, this is about us, heck India is catching up with africa in HIV and guess what both hold the * same* attitude as africans regarding sex....not kama sutra.....but unprotected sex
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Posted: Monday September 25th, 2006 08:27 |
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Never underestimate the guile of a grey. Even if the disease came about as a consequence of todays sodom and gommorah lifestyle, such a disease is a potent weapon in the world of germ warfare...saves billions of dollars on laboratory experiments. Twenty years ago they were advertising the threat of aids with the motto 'don't die of ignorance' and twenty years later the whole of Africa and global African communities are dying. A coincidence? a way maybe for babylon to press it home to ignorant white people their stereotype of Africans being ignorant?.. or as also rightly put, maybe only the ignorant African would see it that way?
At the end of the day, be it racism, oppression or aids, the buck stops with us. If it is one of babylons experiments then just like flooding African communties with drugs and guns they can rely on our own ignorance to kill ourselves. Just like the film undercover brother and the plot to spike fried chicken, they could take us out tomorrow if they wanted to but it's more fun watching us kill ourselves slowly.
Another film resevoir dogs where everybody is arguing trying to get the first word in when one of them saiys stop, we're behaving like ni$$ers - likewise with the aids advert, maybe this was their way of saying don't die like ni$$ers (Africans).
But as also mentioned, and again be it racism, oppression, gun crime or any solution, we still need a root cause. The buck stopping with us also means if we believe we have been victimised in some kind of babylon genocide, then we have to be the ones willing to do the real detective work. All the Conspiracy bullsh*t is just that...sh*t!...indeed if it is an experiment, no doubt babylon takes it for granted conspiracy theories are the best we will ever come up with.....which again, can be interpreted as another cosmetic gesture in an attempt to justify our own ignorance.
I got a friend from Swaziland who told me for all the relative safe sex they have tried to practise, aids is spreading so fast they actually believe it is in the condoms supplied by the west so many have now refused to wear them. Ignorant as hell!..just shows how far some will go for skin to skin. But even if it is true then a screening program is needed where you get checked out and make sure you find a clean partner and stay with them for life. I can see it now, just like organ donor cards, next we will be carrying I'm aids free cards. But then surely the guile of the grey would ensure all the hiv+'s among us got hiv- cards.
If you really want to get paranoid you could argue they've used drugs, guns, money, vanity and now it's sex....guess once we've got over aids it really will be spiking the fried chicken next....maybe the film undercover brother was a shrewd way of Africans telling babylon we know what's really going on...but then maybe it was babylons way of saying this is our next plan but your ignorance will make you see it as a joke in a film.
Last edited on Monday September 25th, 2006 10:20 by Incognito
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Saida.M
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Posted: Monday September 25th, 2006 10:09 |
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Mezmerized wrote: Saida.M wrote: Passionate post but I'm afraid mez it did not explain how for millions of years this disease was not recognised as such does it? And what will that achieve in the here and now when MILLIONS of Africans are dying? Perhaps i have misread you, but i get what you are trying to say with me being "passionate" is really like trying to pat me in the back for being a weeny emotional about it but really NONE of what i said will make a damn different untill YOU find out about how the disease came to be recognised as HIV/AIDS? well i have heard it all before.....yet people are still dying.....so what do YOU want?
Of course I wasn't trying to 'pat you on the back for being a wee bit emotional'! I admire passionate people, (and I'm one of them), - they're usually the ones who get things done!
I was saying good for you for being passionate about it because it tells us you believe what you are saying. But my argument wasn't that we should not think about the here and now that is a seperate subject. The author asked how it became a 'black people's disease' and for that we need to know what was originally said - I just was answering.
We cannot ignore the why or the how - to do that would equal more ignorance. How can we hope to cure for anthing example if we don't know anything about it's origin. As FredB said "Putting on condoms etc will reduce sickness and death but does not answer how this thing was introduced ...".
I may be missing something but we know A.I.D.S is out there but I'm just not convinced about the 'how'.
I also find it hard to understand the whitemans 'findings' because of all the ridiculous theories, (not to mention previous lies), already put out there by them. Again, my point as Abs pointed out is NOT to do magic here in an internet forum to find out about ALL the hows and blah blahh.....people are dying NOW.....what do YOU suggest we do in the NOW to help us save millions of African lives? And for the love of maat, please, can we posibly have just ONE discussion without bringing in the white man's conspirancy theories?
Not really - if the cap fits and all that ...
We all know already that there is something fishy about the disease and how it became to be more prevalent in Africa....however, HOW it became a WORLD WIDE African problem is what i care MORE about....and my opening post was trying to get to that. I care MORE about how we Africans REACTS to HIV/AIDS rather than us DRAINING our energies with unqualified judgements about the hows with white man this/that. Let the African scientists who are qualified to do that......
But suppose they (whites) are the ones creating it? Again we cannot blindly trust them can we - especially given thier track record.
but what i am suggesting here is what WE the PEOPLE can do to change our atittude and educate our masses about PREVENTATIVE measures.
Nothing wrong with that, but as aforementioned - to do it, it would help if we knew the how and why it came about.
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Posted: Monday September 25th, 2006 10:14 |
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Incognito wrote: Never understimate the guile of a grey. Even if the disease came about as a consequence of todays sodom and gommorah lifestyle, such a disease is a potent weapon in the world of germ warfare...saves billions of dollars on laboratory experiments. Twenty years ago they were advertising the threat of aids with the motto 'don't die of ignorance' and twenty years later the whole of Africa and global African communities are dying. A coincidence? a way maybe for babylon to press it home to ignorant white people their stereotype of Africans being ignorant?.. or as also rightly put, maybe only the ignorant African would see it that way?
But then surely the guile of the grey would ensure all the hiv+'s among us got hiv- cards.
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"One of the heads of the beast seemed to have been fatally wounded, but the wound had healed. The whole earth was amazed and followed the beast".
Good News Bible. Rev. Ch.13 V.3
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Backatya
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Posted: Monday September 25th, 2006 12:11 |
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FredB wrote: :@Mez one second. It is not fruitless to try to identify the source of this disease and how it was first introduced into the human population as it does not exist in nature. This is an important area of scientific intervention and we neeed answers.
The notion that discussion of the above eliminates premptive action is a false notion and probably applied to the type of ignorant people who would not be interested in the origins of Aids anyhow.
One discussion does not eliminate the other, even though I think it causes is more pertinent in the scientific/academic community, while the other is basic sexual health education and good practice.
Putting on condoms etc will reduce sickness and death but does not answer how this thing was introduced and what is its make up or intrinsic charctersitcs and can other forms of disease be introduced to us and who is doing this work..
FB
FB
FredB here has touched on some of the issues I have with Mez's post, albeit that her comments were made with great passion and no doubt deep sincerity.
However, I think the issue of ignorance among (some) our people is one which needs to be considered from an angle wider than 'ignorance of matters sexual', because there are serious issues around this whole AIDSs thing which we African/Black people need to concern ourselves with. Lax sexual morals, questionable sexual practices etc. are indeed issues that need to be treated responsibly in any 'civilised' Society. However, simply wrapping them up in the AIDS issues puts a smoke screen around the real considerations and is a big distraction from the area where the true debate lies.
Time and other considerations restricts me from going into this as deeply as I would wish at this time, however, I will come back to this. What I will say though is this........
SEXUAL PROMISCUITY IS NOT THE REASON FOR THE AIDS 'EXPLOSION' IN AFRICA (or anywhere else for that matter).
Respect
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Incognito
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Posted: Monday September 25th, 2006 12:27 |
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Backatya - please do, would like to see if it's the same stuff I have come across or heard about...your business gives you a tendancy to say you're coming back and you never do.
The question of promiscuity is a serious one. Personally I ave doubts that sexual intercourse alone canaccount for such a widespread....and that's taking into account you can sleep with someone many times and still not get infected...and even more so when many Africans have not yet introduced the wild and amoral sexual attitude of the west into their culture.
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