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Sage
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Posted: Friday December 12th, 2003 21:15 |
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By Michael Christie
MIAMI (Reuters) - Haitian community leaders vowed to proceed with plans to picket retailers selling a video game in which players are exhorted to "kill all the Haitians," saying the manufacturer's pledge to change future editions did not solve the problem with games on store shelves now.
After an outcry from the Haitian community over the game "Grand Theft Auto: Vice City," and to a lesser extent from leaders of the Cuban American community that players of the game are also urged to kill, Rockstar Games this week announced it would remove references to Haitians from future copies.
"It's too little, too late," said Ringo Cayard of the Haitian American Foundation. "They made the money, the message went through."
"The presence of Grand Theft Auto: Vice City on the shelves of national distributors and retailers ... continues to constitute a clear and present danger for Haitian nationals in the United States. Residents of Little Haiti (in Miami) have become like a sitting duck," Jean-Robert Lafortune of the Haitian-American Grassroots Coalition told Reuters on Thursday.
Haitian groups decided at meetings on Wednesday night to continue with planned protests against retailers.
They aim to picket Wal-Mart (NYSE:WMT - news) at the Florida seaside city of Boynton Beach on Dec. 13, retailers in New York on Dec. 15, and video chain Blockbuster Inc. (NYSE:BBI - news) (NYSE:VIAB - news)in Miami on Dec. 20. Cuban leaders have said they will join them.
Rockstar and its owners Take-Two Interactive Software Inc. (Nasdaq:TTWO - news) apologized for unintentionally causing offense but said the phrases had been taken out of context, and would not encourage violence against ethnic groups.
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City simulates a "glamorous, hedonistic metropolis of Vice City," a Miami-like seaside city teeming with Caribbean and Latin American immigrants.
In the game, an ex-convict has to recover stolen drug money and take on the Cuban and Haitian gangs that run the streets.
Anti-Defamation League national director Abraham Foxman praised the company for reacting so quickly and doing "the responsible thing by showing sensitivity."
Gepsie Metellus of the Haitian Neighborhood Center in Miami said she would not expect Take-Two to withdraw all copies of the game from the market place, "But I'm certainly hoping they will also edit the lines with respect to other ethnic groups."
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Hesaid
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Posted: Saturday December 13th, 2003 18:12 |
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Damn, as if hatians aint got it bad enough
In the us. If someone does something stupid or dressed
shabby their called Haitian.
In the uk. theres no Haitian bashing amongst black people. The equivelent is how Africans were treated by west Indians
If it wer'nt for Wyclef(the first one out the closet)
Haitians would continue to be treated as the bowel of
black people & be ashamed to say they were from Haiti.
I dont get it but I do know that it must've
been black people who helped write these negative attitudes
into the game.Everytime we move forwarrd a step theres
always a house N****r to move us backwards.
What will make us collectively wake up?
*
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nuvoue
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Posted: Sunday December 14th, 2003 06:56 |
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hi,
i was reading an article about this on another website the other day . they were talking about the amount of time american kids spend on these video games every day , all completely unsupervised and with zero critical reflection about the subject matter and about the subcouncious messages being pumped out . i have noticed that the grand theft auto series has some very negative, bordering on racist sterotypes about blacks and also hispanics .
this is a new media and i wonder if minorities need to start taking as much notice of the messages being put across through them as they do about television, film and other more established media channels ?
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TeeJay
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Posted: Thursday December 18th, 2003 01:32 |
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Has anyone here actually played GTA3 or GTA:VC? Both games are rated "18" in the UK (equivalent to an "R" rated movie in the US I think) and they are definitely aimed at *adults* in the same way as "Goodfellas", "The Godfather", "Pulp Fiction" and other violent gangster movies etc.
The first half of GTA 3 features the mafia and there gang wars with the Chinese Triads in a "New York" type setting. The character then gets double crossed by a mafia rival and has to run away and go and work for the Japanese Yakusa. I haven't actually finished GTA3 so I don't know how the story ends.
The central character in both GTA is an Italian-American guy. In first game his only real "friend" right from the start an African-American guy called 8-ball, who he breaks out of jail with, who introduces hi to the mafia and who has a "bomb shop" and wrecking yard and helps him out with various stuff at different points in the story.
GTA:Vice City continues the story with the character moving down to Miami. I have only played the first part of it so I can't really give a very good overview, but in common with the first game, no one is gang or group is "better" or "worse" than any other. You basically take on contracts with various bosses (of all different groups) and you have to go and do lots of missions which usually mean fighting with either another gang or with the police and FBI or whoever.
It is a bit wierd reading a lot into one line taken from a massive game which is kind of like an interactive movie-length, 18-rated/R-rated Miami Vice or Goodfellas. The people who made the game are Rockstar Games - I think they are a British company (might even be Scottish) and they have some decent reggae, garage, rave etc music on the in game "radio stations" which you can tune into as you drive your car-jacked Ferraris around town and shoot people with your uzis etc. There are a lot of little things in the game that take the piss out of English people, in a fun way, and generally the game is actually fairly "liberal" in its politics - its hard to explain what I mean by this - kind of think what Pulp Fiction was like - the characters themselves are violent b**tards, often being prejudiced etc, but the actual script itself is intelligent and "multiracial/multicultural" rather than stereotyping people (in my opinion). I would put GTA3 and GTA:VC into the same category.
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nuvoue
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Posted: Thursday December 18th, 2003 03:02 |
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hi teejay,
u might be interested in this article :
Racist Imagery Taints New Video Game
By Dana Williams | Staff Writer, Tolerance.org
Sept. 29, 2003 -- Manhunt, the soon to be released video game from the makers of the popular Grand Theft Auto series, boasts a full dose of blood, gore and violence.
But that's not all. Racist imagery in at least one scene of the video game makes for an even more dangerous combination.
The scene in question includes four brawny characters wielding assault rifles. Their appearance and attire bear striking resemblance to that found in white supremacist culture: shaved heads, red suspenders, jack boots.
Three men are wearing T-shirts with emblems similar to the symbol of the Hammerskin Nation, one of the most violent and best organized neo-Nazi skinhead groups in the United States. The Confederate battle flag is painted on two of the men's faces.
"These images have been coming into the mainstream for some time now," said Eric Ward of the Center for New Community, a Chicago-based group promoting democracy, justice and racial equality.
"This is a sign of where society is on the impact of hate and bigotry. We're seeing the trappings of it in the mainstream."
Scheduled for release Nov. 19, the game was developed by Rockstar North of Switzerland and is being published by New York-based Take Two Interactive.
Tolerance.org contacted Rockstar and Take Two Interactive about images in the upcoming Manhunt game, but had not received a comment at press time.
Touted as a "brutal blood sport, Manhunt's gruesome action takes place in fictitious Carcer City and begins with a scene on death row. There, protagonist James Earl Cash awaits death by lethal injection until spared his life by a mysterious character known as "the Director."
To remain alive, Cash must kill a string of enemies — like those who appear in skinhead regalia — before they spot him.
If the violence isn't alarming enough, some say the skinhead imagery certainly is. Especially considering the significant teenage audience likely to play the game.
A recent Gallup poll shows that 70 % of American teenage boys have played Grand Theft Auto, also by the makers of Manhunt.
"These images are clearly reminiscent of the racist right," said Richard Cohen, vice president of the Southern Poverty Law Center. "And this game is targeted at an impressionable audience —young teen boys — a percentage of whom will no doubt identify with the bad guys. This is not a great thing."
Ward at the Center for New Community agrees.
"Of course these images exist around the idea of being the villain. Yet they are shown to be very sexy in a dangerous, rebellious sort of way. That can definitely attract some young people."
Although the game is rated M for adults, studies show such ratings do little to deter children and teenagers from obtaining violent games.
FTC-sponsored secret shopper surveys have found that unaccompanied teens between the ages of 13 and 16 could buy M-rated video games about 75% of the time.
Daphne White, executive director of The Lion and the Lamb Project, an organization dedicated to reducing marketing of violent toys and entertainment to youth, says the notion that an M-rating would prevent young people from purchasing or playing a violent game is ridiculous.
"Clearly, industry self-regulation is not working. Young people can and do get their hands on these violent games," White said.
And once they do get their hands on violent games, the implications are serious.
"Teenagers are not adults, that's why they're in school," White said. "Their impulse control is weak and so is their understanding of the finality of violence."
Images like those in Manhunt "teach militia-like thinking," White added. "They say, 'You're the good guy, you're right, here's a weapon, go handle it.' That doesn't show our democratic system working."
Ward sees a more frightening result.
"There will be a lot of people who play this game, because Rockstar makes some great video games in this genre," Ward said.
"But the frightening thing is that this image can desensitize people to the hate and bigotry that's out there, and it doesn't put out any messages about white supremacy in its entire context."
Contact us to reprint this article.
and an image from the game -
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TeeJay
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Posted: Thursday December 18th, 2003 03:40 |
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Well there are lots of games where you get to kill Nazis and terrorists already: For example "Return To Castle Wolfenstein" where the Nazis have used occult practises to resurrect evil zombies etc.
I haven't seen this game "Manhunt" but the idea of a game where I shoot racist scum neo-nazis doesn't bother me actually.
It's true in that Germany "Return To Castle Wolfenstein" has not been allowed to be sold, along with anything else which shows swastikas or nazi symbols - even in films and TV shows etc - since swastikas are outlawed - no just for neo-nazi skinheads but even for actors/film-makers when they are using them to show what b**tards the nazis were. In the UK however there is no ban on shooting nazis in videogames etc. or making films about WW2 that includes people dressed in nazi uniform etc. However Neo-nazi propaganda and hate speech and wearing nazi regalia in public etc is all illegal (eg under the laws about "incitement to racial hatred" and "actions likely to lead to a breach of the peace" etc) as it should be in my opinion.
Like I said, I haven't seen this new game, but Rockstar Games are not some racist company, and I don't think they are actually based in Switerland at all either. I will do some research on the subject and come back to you.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday December 18th, 2003 03:47 |
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Teejay: i've got both game and I like them very much because it was obviously developed by someone with a wicked and dark sense of humour... However as much as i like the games i would have to acknowledge that both games are based on crude racial stereotypes of the worse kind.. As an adult obviously i can see past these cartoon characters but I'm not sure that it wouldn't reinforce already held stereotypes about people..
Therefore i totally understand why Haitians are up in arms, my difficulty is that this game has been out for ages so to be it seems a bit like closing the stable door after the horse dun bolted..
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Posted: Thursday December 18th, 2003 04:03 |
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hi teejay,
i understand where u r coming from but this is my point . Video Games are a popular medium , this u must admit . And it is a relatively new medium , one which has only just been started to looked at with the same critical eye that literature and latterly cinema has been examined for a number of yeares . the issue of violence has been poured over but not other aspects of this medium eg attitudes to women, attitudes to minorities, materialistic values , etc. So although u may not feel that there is any negativity in these games , i would u say to u that the debate by academics , lay people and any other considered citizens has only just begun . And i fel that its a debate worth having ... if and when u hv kids ( if u dont hv already ) i suspect u will be equally concerned about the video games ur kids are playiong as with the kind of friens they r hanging out with , the kind of books they r reading and the kind of films they r watching.
these games are becoming more and more photorealistic as techology progresses , i hv noticed a plethora of games were the object is to assasinate "arab-looking" terrorists or "jamaican" yardies . so i disagree thats its all good because ur only killing Nazis anyway .
like i said its best to hv the debate now than trust the powers that r making these games to police themselves and hv outr best interests at heart .
ps are any of these companies 'black-owned.' no i didnt think so .
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TeeJay
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Posted: Thursday December 18th, 2003 04:20 |
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I just checked out some info. and Rockstar North is in fact based in Edinburgh, and there are no branches of Rockstar studios based in Switerland as far as I can see.
I have also found the website for people if they want to check them out for themselves: http://www.rockstargames.com/
I would advise people to read some actual *reviews* of games and movies, or even better - see them for yourself - before making judgements about them, rather than based it purely on campaigning groups who sometimes haven't even played the game / watched the movie / read the book for themselves.
Kunjufu, I'm interested to see that you say you enjoyed GTA3 and GTA:VC but that they conmtain crude racial stereotypes *of the worst kind*. I would agree they do both contain "racial stereotypes", but the way I see it they are not "of the worst kind" becuase they do contain actual named characters of all races/genders/ethnicities/etc who are sympathetic, and its only the "gangs" that are stereotyped, rather than every single person in the game. There are also all the pedestrians/police/etc who are law abiding and who also come in all races/genders/ethnicities/etc.
Rockstar North in Edinburgh were the people who made GTA3, and they obviously were taking the piss slightly out of every American action/cops/gangsters/crime/mafia movies of the last 30 years, and turned it all into a kind of cartoon version of "The Godfather" et al. But at the same time they actually bothered to make a game that included a whole range of cultures, espcially for example the music sound tracks, and in this respect GTA3 was a lot more multiculutral than almost any other videogame *ever*.
So basically, yes - there are "stereotypes" - but the game is seriously *not* racist against any one gang or group or ethnicity, and it also is specifically about gangs and crime, and its doesn't pretend that all Englishmen are bed-wetting ninnies, or that all Italians are medallion-man macho mafiosa, or that all Jamaicans are ganga-smoking rastas etc etc - its meant to be kind of "adult humour" - kind of like "South Park" style humour.
I would not let my kids play these games. Maybe that is the real issue. There is also a game called "Postal 2" which I would not by on the grounds that it is a sick and nasty game. I have read a few reviews and it is just *nasty*. The "bloodiest" game I have played is "Soldier of Fortune 2" and although some people have objected to that being gratuitously violent and nasty I didn't find it morally objectionable, just a bit questionable in terms of its "taste".
There was also a lot of fuss last year about alledged racism in Hitman 2 last year, but in fact it was some moron at the publisher who had written an offensive press release that made reference to "Sikhs" and "Dalits" or somesuch, by way of trying to explain what the story of the game was, and the actual game itself didn't actually contain the suppose objectional content that the press release said it did. I eventually played the whole thing and found out for myself, but ironically by the time I had played the game all the fuss had died down and noone wanted to argue or talk about it any more. 
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday December 18th, 2003 04:29 |
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TeeJay wrote:
Kunjufu, I'm interested to see that you say you enjoyed GTA3 and GTA:VC but that they conmtain crude racial stereotypes *of the worst kind*. I would agree they do both contain "racial stereotypes", but the way I see it they are not "of the worst kind" becuase they do contain actual named characters of all races/genders/ethnicities/etc who are sympathetic, and its only the "gangs" that are stereotyped, rather than every single person in the game. There are also all the pedestrians/police/etc who are law abiding and who also come in all races/genders/ethnicities/etc.
Yes I take your point Teejay, however come on go back and pop the game into your Ps2, each gang does manifest behaviours that match tabliod stereotypes.. ie each gang member drives cars linked to a percieved culture, they attack in a similar vain, and the crimes are pretty much according to stereotypes as well...don't get me wrong love the game..wickedly dark sense of humour but it is not exactly pc is it?
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Posted: Thursday December 18th, 2003 04:35 |
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ok teejay GTA gets a pass from me on YOUR say so LOL
but my point remains that these games should not escape the critical eye that passes over ALL other media that we subject ourselves and our families too .
thats it ... u may disagree 
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TeeJay
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Posted: Thursday December 18th, 2003 04:38 |
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i hv noticed a plethora of games were the object is to assasinate "arab-looking" terrorists or "jamaican" yardies . so i disagree thats its all good because ur only killing Nazis anyway . Out of interest what games are you talking about? I love playing PC games (I don't have a console) but I hate racism. Regarding "arab-looking" 'bad guys/enemies' in games, I don't think there is a single game I can think of where you kill anyone just because they are "arab-looking". There are plenty of games where you have enemies that are Japanese, black, white, arab, indian, Russian, German, Colombian, etc etc - and almost always it is tied in with some kind of crime, terrorism, war or other "scenario". There have been a number of games where one or more of the "good guys" is black, and I have just finished playing my newest game called "Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time" where you play the part of an Arab prince and you are helped out by an Indian princess. OK its true that the "arab" prince has blue-ish eyes, and persia is now called Iran, and isn't arab, so maybe its not quite all "accurate", although I have met P*kistanis and Iranians with blue eyes etc.
There is a really good game called "Urban Chaos" where the "hero" is a black female police officer, and the main boss/leader in Project Eden is a black guy. One of my all time favourites was Oni - with the lead character being a Japanese female character.
Regarding the ownership of these companies - I haven't got a clue but I would expect they are owned by the same people who own most of the entertainment industry, including the people who own the big record labels. A more relevant question is "how many black programmers and designers are there working on these videogames?" I don't know the answer to that either.
I admit there is often a very fine line between intelligent commentary and treatment of different racial and ethnic groups and cultures, and crass and racist stereotyping which simply serves to belittle, insult and put down whole groups of people. However, I am trying to think of which *videogames* are guilty of doing this... (there are plenty of films and TV shows which have done this - but most of them are crappy straight to video types that are so dire I have forgotten their names anyway).
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Posted: Thursday December 18th, 2003 04:47 |
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Yes I take your point Teejay, however come on go back and pop the game into your Ps2, each gang does manifest behaviours that match tabliod stereotypes.. ie each gang member drives cars linked to a percieved culture, they attack in a similar vain, and the crimes are pretty much according to stereotypes as well...don't get me wrong love the game..wickedly dark sense of humour but it is not exactly pc is it? This is all true (except I only have a PC - I don't have a PS2  ). The stereotypes are all very out in the open. I'd hate to see how they would portray everyone if they did one for London! It would be like a combination of "Trainspotting", "Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels" and "Snatch" probably! Stereotypes have always been a staple of comedy and, more generally, drama. I think the issue is the sentiment behind them and if there really are any negative or hateful underlying messages or statements.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday December 18th, 2003 04:50 |
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TeeJay wrote:don't have a PS2 ). The stereotypes are all very out in the open. I'd hate to see how they would portray everyone if they did one for London! It would be like a combination of "Trainspotting", "Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels" and "Snatch" probably! Stereotypes have always been a staple of comedy and, more generally, drama. I think the issue is the sentiment behind them and if there really are any negative or hateful underlying messages or statements.
Actually Teejay there is a PS2 game based on white cockney crime scene (sorry the name escapes me...) and yes it does strongly resemble a characatuer of 'lock stock'...even down to the Jag saloon and the cockney rhyming slang...
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Posted: Thursday December 18th, 2003 04:53 |
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ok teejay let me put my point another way .
i can remember it wasnt that long ago that a subject like Film Studies was looked at unfavourably compared to something like Literary Studies or acamedic studies of the Arts for example .
what i am saying is that video games are in that same category where we consume with no intellectual critique of what we are consuming .
now every man and his uncle is a budding tarantino and will talk to u about his top ten film directors , favourite genre , and can engage in deep socio-cultural dissection of the latest StarWars film .
I would like to see that happening with video games where we now not only the people on screen but the people behind the camera, the rockstars etc of this world . who they are , what makes them tick, what there backgrounds are.
everyone knows about kubrick ,scorcese , coppola etc . the average man on the street could u give u competent biography of any of these men , that is yet to happen with video games AND I feel it should .
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Posted: Thursday December 18th, 2003 06:06 |
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Here are a couple of articles about Sam Houser:
http://www.designmuseum.org/designerex/rockstar-games.htm
http://ps2.ign.com/articles/098/098185p1.html
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,13385/
And here are the executives at the "parent company" Take2 Interactive: http://www.take2games.com/index.php?p=biographies (no photographs tho')Last edited on Thursday December 18th, 2003 06:10 by TeeJay
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Posted: Thursday December 18th, 2003 06:21 |
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| thanks teejay .
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Posted: Monday September 5th, 2005 16:27 |
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I was reading some of the posts here about video games. I was wondering do they have any where black people are randomly killing white people (all non-black people)?
I think they should, some gamers probably would get a kick out of that.
There should be a game that has every stereotype about white folx(all non-black folx) in it, I think that that would only be fair, that way it would show that there is no bias going on, then everybody can be shown in a 'dark' humored kinda way.
Of course, if this was to happen (which I seriously doubt) there probably will be more black people complaining about it than anybody else.
I MEAN IT'S ONLY A GAME ANYWAY, RIGHT??!!???
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Posted: Monday September 5th, 2005 17:45 |
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It's funny you should say that.
Since this thread was started a new version of GTA has be released:
GTA: San Andreas
The character you play - the hero as it were - who can - if you so wish - go around shooting anyone and everyone is called "CJ".
You can see him and all the other main characters in the game here: http://www.gtasanandreas.net/characters/
(nb Scroll down the page a bit and you will see a character called "Maddog" who is voiced by Ice T. Samuel L Jackson voices another character.)
Last edited on Monday September 5th, 2005 17:48 by TeeJay
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ChubbiChix
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| Joined: | Wednesday December 1st, 2004 |
| Location: | Queens, New York USA |
| Posts: | 1363 |
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Posted: Monday September 19th, 2005 09:10 |
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| They shouldn't picket, they have cubans, and jewish people and they are not upset. Im not going to front though, in vice city the area that the haitians live in called little haiti does look very dirty and so do the haitian characters. Theres even a mission where the cubans are calling little haiti a dump.
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