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COLTRANE
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Posted: Sunday February 6th, 2005 05:04 |
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| Discuss
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Jazzieray
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Posted: Sunday February 6th, 2005 14:09 |
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I'm not entirely sure what you mean, do you mean that doctors and those in the medical field diagnose people with depression all to frequently these days without trying to get to the heart of their problem or do you mean something else?
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Ahmaad
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Posted: Sunday February 6th, 2005 17:55 |
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No...
Clinical Depression is an actual mental illness caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain.
Character Analysis is no more helpful for Clinical Depression than drinking orange juice for Influenza.
Now if you're talking about people who've just given up on life...that's a different story.
Like Jazzy, I'm gonna wait to see where you're going with this question.
But all this "blame yourself for all your problems" trend is getting to be a little disturbing to me because it let's too many of society's leaders off the hook for their failures.
In a society governed by strict laws and social rules that we as individual have little control over...what good is character analysis if your ability to change your environment is limited anyway?
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Blu Oshun
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Posted: Sunday February 6th, 2005 19:20 |
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Ahmaad wrote: "Character Analysis is no more helpful for Clinical Depression than drinking orange juice for Influenza"
i agree with you Ahmaad 100% on the above. such a view doesn't take into account that sometimes it's a distorted analysis of one's character that leads one to depression. maybe those who as children have grown up in abusive (physical/mental etc) environments where it has been successfully ingrained into their heads that they are of negliable worth, or that they are the most evil and vile things to have ever come into being- a waste of space. having grown up or found yourself in adult life living with person/s who are abusive towards you may leave some people believing such malice. that their character has courted the treatmnet that they have come to endure. this then means the way by which they have come to interpret their charcter becomes distorted and hijacked by this hate they have been lead to believe they personify. the intense 'character analysis' they put themselves through just maybe the last contributor ( ''the last straw on the camel's back'') to the depression that has been mounting up throughtout the abuse they have been subjected to.
i think jazzieray's interpreattion of the question raises an interesting point, at least a derivative of the point. to me it seems like in the media, especially for pop stars checking into 'the priory' seems to be a cheque to buying yourself some credibilty, the angst of the tortured artist. hence it's depression that become's their pain. i think this has done the seriousness of depression allot of harm. made it become interpreted as a cop out, something to cling on to when the gossip columnists in the tabloids are being mean about these 'stars'. hence the public become allot less sympathetic ( allot more sceptical) about depression and it's legitimacy. especially when they conclude that the latest celebrity's so- called depression is an escape from some good old fashioned ego analysis.
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Blu Oshun
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Posted: Sunday February 6th, 2005 19:37 |
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Last edited on Tuesday February 8th, 2005 17:33 by Blu Oshun
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ramiie
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Posted: Monday February 7th, 2005 10:13 |
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Jazzieray..I think you have misunderstod the question. Doctor don't generally (have time) to analyse character.
What coltrane appears to (want to) say is that you can pick and choose when you want to be depresed and when you prefer self analysis. Of course its nonsense, but its nonsense mainly because of his misuse of grammar. The key word here is substitute..he should have said "Depression can result from not making sufficient time for rational self analysis. Discuss"
Last edited on Monday February 7th, 2005 10:14 by ramiie
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Backatya
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Posted: Monday February 7th, 2005 13:43 |
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What I thought Coltrane was saying is that
"The 'practice of applying the term 'depression' to a person's mental condition serves as a substitute for the hard work of fully analysing a persons character to determine the true nature of their 'condition'.
In other words it is an easier, and probably lazier, option to claim an individual's 'problems' lie in the fact that they are suffering from a condition known as 'Depression', rather than something to do with issues of their character. These 'character issues' may become evident if a Character Analysis (whatever that be) is carried out.
Simply saying 'they are depressed' is an easy out from doing a Character Analysis.
That's what I took his statement to mean. Of course I could be entirely wrong, but it sounds good. 
Respect
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Rebel-Lion-02
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Posted: Monday February 7th, 2005 16:43 |
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Hmmm, its often said that the term 'depression' is thrown around too much without people knowing the meaning behind it. ''I'm sooo depressed'' seems to be a fasionable statement to make when the bills roll in but depression is so much more than that.
Character analysis, yes.
I'd say that a persons position in life effects their mental state in many ways.
E.G; A highly ambitious person whos had the rug swept from under them leaving them in an unambitious situation/state by no fault of their own would suffer from depression.
Their SITUATION is OPPRESSING them into it.
It is the loss of hope.
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The people of America and the people of Europe say that it was Albert Einstein who came out with the idea that time and space are one. My answer to that is, “No!� My people, the Zulus knew that centuries ago!
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Subedei
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Posted: Saturday February 26th, 2005 09:10 |
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Rebel-Lion-02
Just noticed your footnote statement. I had that same argument with a young " Jewish American". Although I was not aware of the Zulu tradition, I asked him who the greater genius was; Buddha, who knew this without proof, or Einstein who didn't know until he "proved" it?
I believe that in many ways traditional knowledge would have served us much better than Western "science" has.
After achieving a consensus reading of the topic, I think y'all have accurately interpreted Coltranes intent. Depression can have either environmental or biological causes and is frequently a combination of both. Hence, counselling has proven quite effective in the treatment of depression.
I think the implied issue here is that by simply diagnosing depression, AND DISPENSING PHARMACEUTICALS, health care professionals (notice the term I didn't use) take the convenient route and treat the symptom and not the illness. It's always been portrayed that Psyches liked extended therapy because that's how they got paid, but now I'm wondering if the pharmaceutical "commissions" would cover that spread. I've got a cousin practicising in SF. Maybe I'll pose that question to him.
On a personal level, I've been dealing (unsuccessfully) with depression since I was a teenager. Just consistently in a funk for periods probably no more than two weeks. It didn't seem to affect me to drastically until I was in my mid-thirties when the periods began to become extended and I recognized that something just was not right. Thne one day at work I realized that I was suffering from depression and immediately began to feel about 50% better. Just knowing, at that point, was enough to give my moood a boost.
I then learned something very interesting. Environmental depression is thought to be agression turned inward. That's where Rebel -Lion-02's observation applies. An ambitious person whose circumstances prevent or hinder their progress may be vulnerable to internalizing agression. Now when I use the term aggression, I don't intend the negative connootation. I think y'all know that.
But anway, since then it's been a struggle with me just trying to plant my feet and aggress on some of my ambitions. I refuse to get on the pill and have stubbornly avoided counseling because I believe, or need to believe, that I can beat this myself. I'll tell y'all though, I had a day last summer that hell can't have anything on. Nothing happened and I was extremely calm and probably far too detached, but I had the most horrible feeling inside my body. It wasn't pain, it was like an abyss of nothingness. I felt like my soul was dead and my body was numb and my mind was just an impartial observer. It was like I was watching myself die and wasn't even emotionally attached. Now, I'm not fishing for sympathy, and I don't think I'm scaring anyone, but as bad as that sh*t was, as hard as that sh*t was, that was f**king life man. Ugly, brutally empty life. I will never forget that sh*t as long as I live. I'm still f**ked up by that. I lost something that day that I know is gone. It's gone. And I have to pick my half dead ass up and go on without it. Man, nobody could have prepared me for an experience like that, no matter how they tried.
Well, I figure If folks can vent about their stretch marks, I can share my hell and back experience. I hope it isn't a completely one sided expression.
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