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efenjee
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Posted: Monday August 8th, 2005 10:57 |
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ADHD... or just dyam rude?
Dyslexia... or just plain dunce?
Not wanting to offend anyone here who may suffer from either of the above ailments because I do believe they exist, but sometimes I think people, parents especially, use these two to excuse their child's behaviour or lack of intelligence/aptitude for learning.
Do you think there are anywhere near as many genuine cases of the above as there are reported to be?
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Mezmerized
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Posted: Monday August 8th, 2005 11:32 |
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efenjee wrote:
Do you think there are anywhere near as many genuine cases of the above as there are reported to be?
YES! And i'll go as far saying that there are MORE out there who don't even know what they suffer from.
I am technically a severely dyslexic person.....the way i express myself in writing is NOT even as coherent as i would if i was speaking to someone face to face.....and if one of my teacher didn't see the difference, i don't know what would have become of me......i used to get straight As for oral presentations, and then Cs for writting......and my teachers just couldn't get it....they would say where did the brain go etc....lol
And imagine there were plenty of kids like that in school with me, and i know for sure that nobody really paid them any attention so they are out there today, walking around with it and as smart as they are, imagine the frustrations that they must feel that they can't read properly or even help their kids with maths......its awful.
I think the world is ignorant of people like us because they think we are lazy or excusing ourselves....or that parents are just obsessed with drugging their kids or as you say*trying to excuse their child's lack of intelligence*
The problem is, those ailments has NOTHING to do with lack of inteligence.......in fact majority of times, dyslexic people are the most creative people you'll ever know......People like Einstein were dyslexic....its reported that he hardly was able to do much with maths or read properly until much later........the only difference is, once a dyslexic knows what they are dealing with and with support, they are more better equipped at dealing with their ailments......i have found this to be true with me....i take it as it comes.......and i have a brilliant mind which i wouldn't change with any ordinary person......perhaps thats why there is no cure.....we are fine but just different.....
I don't know much about ADD or ADHD....but i believe this are *curable*or controllable with medications...
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efenjee
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Posted: Monday August 8th, 2005 11:40 |
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| Mezmerized, you seem to communicate pretty well with the written word for someone who is dyslexic, but I will have to take your word for it that you are. But my question to you is, don't you think there could be a lot of people masquerading as dyslexics when really it's because they are just less able academically? Someone could be better at drawing than writing but does that make them dyslexic? I think if you give 10 people one written test to sit, they may all finish at different times and all achieve 10 out of 10 but the ones who finish last may call themselves dyslexic when really it just took them longer to work out the answers, meaning they are not as bright as those that completed the test first. Also, if someone gets the test completely wrong could that not mean they just did not understand what they were meant to be doing, rather than the fact that they are dyslexic and could not read the questions properly?
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Mezmerized
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Posted: Monday August 8th, 2005 12:16 |
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efenjee wrote: Mezmerized, you seem to communicate pretty well with the written word for someone who is dyslexic, but I will have to take your word for it that you are.
Lol...like i said before,my concept of dyslexia is totally different compared to most people....i just see it as the WAY i am....it has nothing to do with my intelligence or my aspirations....its just that i think completely different compared to the average person.....and may i say that its actually this kind of thinking that makes people thinks that dyslexia equals less intelligent. Thats not the case......we are just different thats all....you think in words, i think completely in pictures......different, but not less valuable.
But my question to you is, don't you think there could be a lot of people masquerading as dyslexics when really it's because they are just less able academically Someone could be better at drawing than writing but does that make them dyslexic?
Efenjee, no one can diagnose themselves as dyslexic....they have qualified educational psychiatrist who will put you through rigorous texting......and those texts are based on assessing one's overall ability on EVERYTHING....even how one is able to read maps(and i can't do this to save my life....in fact i get panic attacks if i am forced to read maps!)
So the conclusion that one is dyslexic is based on your overall performance on all subjects....but what usually happens with dyslexic is that whatever their ailments, they are NATURALLY very creative......and thinking in pictures then becomes easier for the dyslexic to tend to concentrate on things like the Arts, Acting, music etc.........i couldn't really give you one simple answer really....millions of articles have been written....nothing as conclusive ever comes out......and since NO two dyslexic are the same or shows identical symptoms, they can't really determine most things for sure.
I think if you give 10 people one written test to sit, they may all finish at different times and all achieve 10 out of 10 but the ones who finish last may call themselves dyslexic when really it just took them longer to work out the answers, meaning they are not as bright as those that completed the test first. Also, if someone gets the test completely wrong could that not mean they just did not understand what they were meant to be doing, rather than the fact that they are dyslexic and could not read the questions properly?
Glad you have asked this......because this is what i hear most times about people who are not sure about what dyslexia really is.....
To answer your question, as i said in the beginning, my writing is nothing compared to how good i am orally.......and i also think in pictures...so what usually happens is it takes me longer than the average person to write an essay or do my exams......i have to convert those pictures into words and have it run through my mind orally before it actually gets on paper.....what usually happens is by then i have used too much and struggle to put it down on paper.....so really it not that i don't know the answer, its just that the process by which i retrieve my answer works against me........and this is why you will have some people who are bright inside, but its just not coming out......psychologist say its like being i an coma where you here everything but cannot move.....its running through your head, the answers are there....but your hands just cannot transmit this into paper......
Now, there are dumb people i know.....but i have yet to meet one psychologically diagnosed dyslexic who is really dumb that they can't even finish their papers......it might take longer, but our answers are gone be there.
Efenjee darling i wish i could really explain to you any better, unfortunately its not as clear cut as our minds are.......even me i had to read books to understand ME....so maybe if it is something your are dealing with personally then i can always look up the books for you.....
Hope that helped dear
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Saida.M
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Posted: Monday August 8th, 2005 14:33 |
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Efenjee & Mez
Its horrible to think that there are people who genuinely still don't understand these conditions and that they imagine that they are the stereotypes you described Efenjee.
Its like people with autism/aspergers. Some act/look 'normal' but they still have a condition, but because it can be quite hidden, some people don't know how to 'treat' them.
Mez i agree with you 100%. There are a lot of conditions out there that have yet to be diagnosed.
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efenjee
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Posted: Monday August 8th, 2005 15:26 |
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I wasn't talking about genuine sufferers of these things, I was more talking about people who jump onto the bandwagon of ADHD and dyslexia without being diagnosed but believe that because they have trouble learning they have dyslexia or because a child is badly behaved the child has ADHD. I believe that a lot of people were never diagnosed but read/heard about these conditions and believe that because they have some of the symptoms they have the condition.
The other thing is, how these conditions are diagnosed. If you look a list of behaviours that children with ADHD exhibit, you may find that the same types of behaviour are exhibited by kids who are just plain naughty with nothing medically wrong with them. The drugs they prescribe for ADHD are supposed to calm the kid down and let them sit still enough to learn but it frightens me because I think maybe they just 'tranquilise' the kid, or slow them down which just sounds wrong to me, even though I understand that without them some kids cannot sit down in a classroom and be taught. How do you know for sure which is which?
Even doctors do not always get things right so may diagnose a slow learner as being dyslexic or a naughty child as having ADHD. It just seems to me that it's quite easy for someone, say an adult of 35-40yrs old who cannot read and write properly to say they have dyslexia when truth be known, they have never been diagnosed or haven't been diagnosed correctly, but it is more acceptable to say that than to say they have always been a slow learner and never quite grasped reading or writing. Same with these children with ADHD, I believe a doctor can easily listen to a parent or teacher's description of the behaviour, quickly decide the child has ADHD and write out a prescription for Ritalin knowing that the Ritalin will calm the child down whether the child genuinely has ADHD or the child is just a naughtier than the average child.
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CA95616
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Posted: Monday August 8th, 2005 15:53 |
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QUESTION
In developing countries are such conditions recognised? How are they dealt with or not? What is the effect of this?
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Saida.M
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Posted: Monday August 8th, 2005 18:29 |
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efenjee wrote: I wasn't talking about genuine sufferers of these things, I was more talking about people who jump onto the bandwagon of ADHD and dyslexia without being diagnosed but believe that because they have trouble learning they have dyslexia or because a child is badly behaved the child has ADHD. I believe that a lot of people were never diagnosed but read/heard about these conditions and believe that because they have some of the symptoms they have the condition.
The other thing is, how these conditions are diagnosed. If you look a list of behaviours that children with ADHD exhibit, you may find that the same types of behaviour are exhibited by kids who are just plain naughty with nothing medically wrong with them. The drugs they prescribe for ADHD are supposed to calm the kid down and let them sit still enough to learn but it frightens me because I think maybe they just 'tranquilise' the kid, or slow them down which just sounds wrong to me, even though I understand that without them some kids cannot sit down in a classroom and be taught. How do you know for sure which is which?
Even doctors do not always get things right so may diagnose a slow learner as being dyslexic or a naughty child as having ADHD. It just seems to me that it's quite easy for someone, say an adult of 35-40yrs old who cannot read and write properly to say they have dyslexia when truth be known, they have never been diagnosed or haven't been diagnosed correctly, but it is more acceptable to say that than to say they have always been a slow learner and never quite grasped reading or writing. Same with these children with ADHD, I believe a doctor can easily listen to a parent or teacher's description of the behaviour, quickly decide the child has ADHD and write out a prescription for Ritalin knowing that the Ritalin will calm the child down whether the child genuinely has ADHD or the child is just a naughtier than the average child.
If you're talking about the fake ones efenjee - well you're always going to get those aren't you? But why someone would want to do that is silly - but of course we know that - it's like wanting to be in a wheelchair.  The fakers must be doing it for a reason though - money usually, or like you said to explain away their failures. But like mez and I said ther might be countless other unrecognised conditions out there, that has yet to be discovered.
I've always said there might be 'conditions' for why people commit certain crimes - but I find a lot of people don't want to listen to that, because they don't want an 'excuse' to allow a criminal to get away from his crime.
So like the real people who suffer with ADHD and Dyslexia - we have got to take the rough with the smooth.
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Posted: Tuesday August 9th, 2005 07:28 |
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ADHD is usually found in boys and is a result of 2 things:
-This current educational system designed for both boys and girls is too sedintary and doesn't allow boys to burn up all that extra energy they build up.
-It's also as a result of other chemical imbalances and disturbances in the brain probably from a poor diet heavy in saturated fats.
Dyslexia is simple.
The Black mind is genetically geared to read from RIGHT TO LEFT, not from left to right as taught in Western educational systems, so the brain often becomes confused and the words become tangled.
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BlackMatta
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Posted: Tuesday August 9th, 2005 07:56 |
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Last edited on Saturday March 4th, 2006 20:42 by
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Masai05
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Posted: Tuesday August 9th, 2005 11:18 |
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Omaar wrote:
ADHD is usually found in boys and is a result of 2 things:
-This current educational system designed for both boys and girls is too sedintary and doesn't allow boys to burn up all that extra energy they build up.
-It's also as a result of other chemical imbalances and disturbances in the brain probably from a poor diet heavy in saturated fats.
"Dyslexia is simple.
The Black mind is genetically geared to read from RIGHT TO LEFT, not from left to right as taught in Western educational systems, so the brain often becomes confused and the words become tangled."
Where the hell did you dig this crap up at? If say an African-American, you, is mixed with White, Native American and ofcourse African from 500 yrs ago, would it not be possible that this supposed genetically geared mind adapt? Not to pick on you but that just sounds like a poor explanation devised at a crack party.
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Omaar
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Posted: Wednesday August 10th, 2005 01:54 |
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Masai05
I don't hang out at crack parties so I wouldn't know.
But let me ask you...
Do you also go by the name Samurai?
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Posted: Wednesday August 10th, 2005 03:34 |
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No Multiple personality disorder here. I have one name, no more Wi-fi where peeps are sharing or stealing my IP address.
Samurai? I don't get it... Elaborate
Crack parties:
What you wrote reflected some sort of brain damage. It could be caused by Crack smoking or maybe those 124 degree days ya'll get in AZ. the dna denatures at 102 degrees so this may be the culprit. All seriousness though, there is no gene that causes people to read in one direction, it is not racial, we ain't arabs who do this as a societal-cultural practice. You sounded Crackish for a minute.
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Mezmerized
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Posted: Wednesday August 10th, 2005 09:27 |
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Omaar wrote:
Dyslexia is simple.
The Black mind is genetically geared to read from RIGHT TO LEFT, not from left to right as taught in Western educational systems, so the brain often becomes confused and the words become tangled.
I doubt this.....Dyslexia in most cases is hereditary(sp).....and since i know many Africans in Africa who are dyslexic, your reasoning does not make any sense.
I know that dyslexics are found more in the English language than any other language.....the explanation for this varies from individual profesionals....and its bloody confusing so i don't bother with it.
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Sooofresh
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Posted: Wednesday August 10th, 2005 13:15 |
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@Mez
you might shoot me down for this, but I agree to an extent that it is the Western system.
Now
I am not saying it does not exist in Africa...................
what I am saying is that in this country they are over zealous in diagnosing Dyslexia.
the minute i stepped in this country every black boy has dyslexia..............??? I am thinking what is going on................
but nevertheless individual cases should be respected and treated promptly, it is just that sometimes I would encourage parents to get a second, third, fourth and so on opnion.
Now
Dyslexia........................what is wrong with getting a few letters in a word mixed up, I do it, especially when I am typing fast.............it is the same as tripping over now and then, does that mean you have a motor neurone disease................I find the word *dyslexia* sounds more serious and hardcore then it is.
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Sooofresh
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Posted: Wednesday August 10th, 2005 13:17 |
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@Mez
you might shoot me down for this, but I agree to an extent that it is the Western system.
Now
I am not saying it does not exist in Africa...................
what I am saying is that in this country they are over zealous in diagnosing Dyslexia.
the minute i stepped in this country every black boy has dyslexia..............??? I am thinking what is going on................
but nevertheless individual cases should be respected and treated promptly, it is just that sometimes I would encourage parents to get a second, third, fourth and so on opnion.
Now
Dyslexia........................what is wrong with getting a few letters in a word mixed up, I do it, especially when I am typing fast.............it is the same as tripping over now and then, does that mean you have a motor neurone disease................I find the word *dyslexia* sounds more serious and hardcore then it is.
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Mezmerized
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Posted: Wednesday August 10th, 2005 13:40 |
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Sooofresh wrote: @Mez
you might shoot me down for this, but I agree to an extent that it is the Western system.
Now
I am not saying it does not exist in Africa...................
what I am saying is that in this country they are over zealous in diagnosing Dyslexia.
the minute i stepped in this country every black boy has dyslexia..............??? I am thinking what is going on................
Soofresh, like i said, i don't know about the system....but what i know is that the English language is a huge factor in Dyslexia.....if the system was the problem, then black kids in France etc would be doing even worse than here(remember the system over there is worse for blacks than here)...but they don't.....so thats something to also take into consideration.
but nevertheless individual cases should be respected and treated promptly, it is just that sometimes I would encourage parents to get a second, third, fourth and so on opnion.
Lol....there is NO cure for Dyslexia.....you just live with it and find ways to manage it....
Now
Dyslexia........................what is wrong with getting a few letters in a word mixed up, I do it, especially when I am typing fast.............it is the same as tripping over now and then, does that mean you have a motor neurone disease................I find the word *dyslexia* sounds more serious and hardcore then it is.
Its not as easy as that dear.....we are talking SERIOUS inabilities here.....and there are mild and severe cases of dyslexia......the mild ones are usually what you are discribing here, getting a word or two mixed up......but severe cases of dyslexia can suck the life out of the sufferer......the frustration and loneliness that can result in it is palpable.....imagine having the words there in your head, but it just doesn't seem to come out.....its no joking and quite frankly it puzzles me how people seem to indentify dyslexia with spelling or just missing words.......thats not Dyslexia in its purest form.....the actual dysability affects us in ways that no one but us understand....and perhaps this is why i do not like to talk to people about it.....because at times it seems people usually become experts all of a suden and completely ignore how we explain the condition from our point of view.
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Posted: Wednesday August 10th, 2005 16:11 |
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Mess-ai
What you wrote reflected some sort of brain damage. It could be caused by Crack smoking or maybe those 124 degree days ya'll get in AZ. the dna denatures at 102 degrees so this may be the culprit. All seriousness though, there is no gene that causes people to read in one direction, it is not racial, we ain't arabs who do this as a societal-cultural practice. You sounded Crackish for a minute.
Crackish.......
 This comming from a guy who represents himself with cartoons and action figures?
Mez
I doubt this.....Dyslexia in most cases is hereditary(sp).....and since i know many Africans in Africa who are dyslexic, your reasoning does not make any sense.
The reason why so many Africans suffer from it is the same reason so many Black people in America suffer from it....because their brains aren't constructed to think and calculate this way.
Africans learn to read and write Western style from left to right just like us and we both suffer the same problems, what doesn't make sense?
Asians have the same problem.
I know that dyslexics are found more in the English language than any other language.....the explanation for this varies from individual profesionals....and its bloody confusing so i don't bother with it.
 Maybe you're confused because you're dyslexic?
SoooSuprised
@Mez
you might shoot me down for this, but I agree to an extent that it is the Western system.
 So in other word you agree with me!
Last edited on Wednesday August 10th, 2005 16:14 by Omaar
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Mezmerized
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Posted: Wednesday August 10th, 2005 16:25 |
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Omaar wrote:
I know that dyslexics are found more in the English language than any other language.....the explanation for this varies from individual profesionals....and its bloody confusing so i don't bother with it.
Maybe you're confused because you're dyslexic?
Trying it on now are we??.....shakes head.....
You know my dyslexia makes me a genuis....i am above the rest of you mere mortals baby....
Last edited on Wednesday August 10th, 2005 20:48 by Mezmerized
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Sooofresh
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Posted: Wednesday August 10th, 2005 19:06 |
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Omaar wrote:
SoooSuprised
@Mez
you might shoot me down for this, but I agree to an extent that it is the Western system.
So in other word you agree with me!
=======================================================
LOL
as much as it pains me..............yes i do
@Sister Mez
I understand completely were you are coming from, and please do not for once see this as me belittling the situation.
but the fact is UK and USA has the highest rate of Dyslexia among Black children especially b lack boys.
now what I am saying is that parents need to be careful when their child is diagnoised, and they should take a second opnion, even third before definatly.
man they tried to do the sh*t with me in Sudan, my dad took me to an English people run school ( dont ask , colony mentality) and straight away they saying *slow* ...........me slow................dad demanded money back took me to a German run school ( dont ask)...not only did i pass with flying colours but won awards.
so all I am saying is that we should be careful with diagnosis and look into it harder, it seems in the UK/USA the TEACHERS give the diagnosis, not proffesionals.
Now back to you and enough of me ( for once LOL)
with all honesty and it has nothing to do with me liking your personality or XYZ, i would'ave NEVER guessed you have Dyslexia..........................at all, so keep up your excellent communication skills and carry on with life normal.
Peace
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Posted: Wednesday August 10th, 2005 20:51 |
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Sooofresh wrote:Now back to you and enough of me ( for once LOL)
with all honesty and it has nothing to do with me liking your personality or XYZ, i would'ave NEVER guessed you have Dyslexia..........................at all, so keep up your excellent communication skills and carry on with life normal.
Ahhhh, i am soo touched now.......my eyes are twitching....
Thanks babes....
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Posted: Thursday August 11th, 2005 02:38 |
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efenjee wrote: ADHD... or just dyam rude?
Dyslexia... or just plain dunce?
Not wanting to offend anyone here who may suffer from either of the above ailments because I do believe they exist, but sometimes I think people, parents especially, use these two to excuse their child's behaviour or lack of intelligence/aptitude for learning.
Do you think there are anywhere near as many genuine cases of the above as there are reported to be?
i think that this is societies way of selling meds and trying to make people into robots...
adhd....some kids are hyper..that is what kids do...they have lots of energy...instead of medicating them to slow them down...parents should invest in their kids...find more things for them to do..burn off that energy in a good way...the focusing part can be fixed with patience, time and strict discipline (parents are told by govt laws that they can't whip their kids but that is another topic)... busy parents want these perfect robotic, stepford kids...that aint reality... kids don't even get to go play outside anymore..they are stuck in the house playing video games...physical education and fine arts programs have been cut... i could go on...and on...about this..
Dyslexia just means that kids/people learn differently...again society and their labels..trying to categorize and put people down for not being "normal"...when in truth..there is no such thing as normal..every one is different.. no 2 people are exactly the same...
kids/people should not be forced to learn at the pace of someone else...
my nephew who is 3 now...had to be taken out of school at 1 1/2 because he was not fully potty trained...but he had the intelligence of a 3 year old...they wanted to put him in a 3 year old class..but state rules stated that he had to be fully potty trained...so my sister has been home schooling him...at first the school said he had adhd...but it was not that..he had trouble interacting with other 1 year olds because he would talk to them and they would not talk back...he did not understand why they could not answer him in complete sentences because he talks in complete sentences... everything his teacher tried to teach him, he already knew, so he got bored and acted out...turns out is was not adhd, but he is gifted...again another label...my sister does not play into |
