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Myjoy
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 16:27 |
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Are there any strong independent women out there that can advise me on this one. I purchased a property over 10 years ago with a former partner. I have just discovered that this person has been dishonest with regard to the purchase of the property. I provided the deposit etc. He has failed in all that time to contribute towards the mortgage payments. His name is still on the title deeds can I remove them from the deeds and how? I am unable to move forward with my life in every way but do not want to sell my house. How can I get rid of him for good
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Incognito
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 16:43 |
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Myjoy - I'm an independant man. If his name is on it you're stuffed..ownership isn't down to who pays money towards it. If you've been paying for it then you might as well say you've been paying him rent.
Know a similar tale where the woman paid the deposit (or at least thinks she did) but only the mans name was on it. She made it clear one day that she has money in the house so he offered her so called investment back but she wanted the house itself.
Anyway, it turns out that she might not be getting the house so now wants her deposit money back but the man is refusing out of principle. Still, not having her name on the house was the best move he done, even though it wasn't a consious decision to have it that way. Guess the lord works in mysterious ways.
After paying the mortgage himself, if her name was on it he'd be out on the road a long time ago. She lived there mortgage and bills free for five years so he now considers her 'deposit' money rent for the time she lived there. She calls him a thief he says the craven dog has simply lost her bone.
You can try and sell him out to babylon as a fraudster but babylon are only in it for the money so you'll probably both lose out. You might not even be able to sell it without his consent.
I'm not saying you have declared yourself as one but first and foremost try moving on without it, surely that's what a real strong and independant woman would do.
Did you buy it together as a family home or a joint business venture?
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Vezz.
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 17:03 |
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If only his name is on the deeds then you are, indeed, stuffed. However, if both are on them then you may be able to buy him out...if he'd let you.
I made sure my name only was on the deeds for my house (although my ex tried to change it fraudulently). When I married my husband insisted I kept my house, and we bought another together.
I LOVE my husband for that.....
Good luck!
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Myjoy
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 18:08 |
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Thanks Vezz and Incognito
Both our names on the title deeds, but I discovered he fraudently obtained the mortgage using me to secure it. The funds were provided by my former employers etc on my behalf as part of a relocation package. Unbeknown to me this man knew what he was doing and I was a silly fool. Why should I lose out because of his dishonesty. He is not prepared to do anything reasonable because he still believes that we have a future together. I have been trying to get rid of him for at least five years now. What to do!
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Incognito
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 18:21 |
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Myjoy - five years wow!...that doesn't sound like he'd take a money and run. At the end of the day the courts are not stupid. If you take it to a judge, given the right evidence they will tell my man to frig off bout his business...it all depends whetehr you think you have that evidence and whether you want to deal with those people.
If it is preventing your life from going forward then you need to do something. One piece of advice though is represent yourself. When I went through my divorce there are some things you just know the system cannot relate to. Try telling a UK based lawyer that you want a divorce because the wife has no culture.
Does he pay the mortgage? The law is the law but they aint stupid. If you have forked out for your yard then go and defend it. They'll give you your dues. If going there means he could go to jail then that's a different ball game.
In five years though you must have been working on a plan B...how is this still holding you as in you can deal with getting your dues on the side while you get on with the rest of your life?
Last edited on Friday April 20th, 2007 18:28 by Incognito
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Myjoy
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 19:32 |
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Hi Incognito
The last time I had to deal with the courts because of this was because he was hitting me, we have three beautiful children and they got caught up in it. It took me some time to explain to the children why things are they way they were. To this day I have never told the children how their father treated me even though they always ask. The children are 14, 11 and 8, two boys and a little girl! If I take this man to court he could very well go to prison etc this is not what I really want for their father even though he does not deserve any sympathy from me. He does what he can for his children if the mood takes him, he remembers them if he wants to, when he wants to. He is hellbent on making life as difficult for me as he can, but I really have had enough. If there was someone who had any legal advice to give me as to how I could deal with this matter with as little upset for the children, I would go for it today! Mine is a sad tale to tell, but I survived it all and just want to finalise things for myself and the children so that they can benefit from the fruits of MY hard labour. I have gone without a lot of things to maintain that mortgage, the children too have gone without a lot of things too.
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Vezz.
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 20:13 |
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Wow! Could (almost!) be my story!
I'm not sure if you've already done this, but to my mind you need legal advice. As both your names are on the deeds you do have legal redress, and a solicitor will tell you the best way to deal with this.
Five years is toooo long!
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Incognito
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 20:27 |
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Myjoy - sounds like he's more or less squatting...and even squatters have rights. I kind of been there myself so wouldn't judge him on your words alone. Got a friend who ccnfided in me when things wenrt wrong in her relationship and as much as I could sympathise I always let her know that if I had a one to one with him he'd probably tell me things I could relate to as to why he is/was the way he is/was.
But that's water under the bridge, it's like he is holding you and the children hostage. Probably thinks the move he done on the house was the best thing he ever did as who knows where he'd be now....but I suspect the real hold is with the children. Even if he only plays a minor role, a mans children is his biggest sense of pride.
My ex still has got some legal cards she can draw and nobody holds me hostage. When I'm free from her legal tricks then I can see what the situation is with me and my kid but your man sounds like he has taken his frustration out on you because he sees himself as wotless. Do you both live in the house or does he have you on a lasso?
What I can't understand is how does the house make him think you have a future together. If you moved out and lived apart how can he hold you to that? Legal advice is free, you can even go to the citizens advice bureau. What you need to know is know what the worse case scenario is and make a decision from there.
It's tricky. Your house will be seen as an asset and as such the people who are supposed to help you will only be seeing pound signs. If you are paying the mortgage then maybe you should simply stop and wait for the repo man to come. In that time, the money you would usually spend on your mortgage put it one side as money to start again with. As bad as babylon is, they won't let you with three children become homeless. You will eventually get rehoused and if you got equity may even get some money when the repo man sells the house.
I feel it for you cause you sound like me as in the house is an investment for the children but your partner sees it as an investment for themself. Me I was ready to walk and leave mine, kind of went through the motions just to see how it would turn out if I defended it but worse case there was no way I was waiting for some judge to tell me where I am or am not living. You need to be ready in your mind to walk away from it and if you do get anything count it as a bonus. As I told the ex, the misery you are apparently suffering can't be worth the house.
Last edited on Friday April 20th, 2007 20:31 by Incognito
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Myjoy
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 21:12 |
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Incognito
No he dont live in the house and has not for some time now, but because his name is still on the deeds he feels he can turn up when he wants, if he wants. He comes all times of the day or night, mostly early morning like 5.00 am and expect to be let in or if he comes of an evening I literally have to create some kind of scene before he leaves to go to his own home.
I believe he is waiting to see if I do put the house up for sale and challenge me on getting his share or see if it is repossessed or wait to see if I have a new man! Either way I feel he waiting to see what happens.
Yeah I have thort about selling it and put this one down to a bad experience, I have thort about getting it repossessed, but I would never ever be able to buy again and then I think that there is still unfinished business in the house still for me to do. Not many caribbean people get opportunities these days to purchase property and when we do we either lose it or sell it. I wanted to be one of the first of my families' generation to own a property and pass it on to my children. Do what other people in other cultures do, and leave something for their children and their childrens' children. Why should I have to fight for something that I truly believe is mine to keep. I have paid into it, I have looked after it, so why should I let go of it so easily. Something keeps on telling me that the answer is there, but I just have to search for it until I find it.
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Myjoy
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 21:33 |
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Can anyone advise me about this one! How can I remove the name of a former partner from the title deeds. The property was purchased some 10 years ago. I discovered 5 years ago that my partner had purchased the property dishonestly and used me to do it. I provided the deposit, paid the legal fees etc. I am still today paying the mortgage. He has not paid any mortgage for at least 9 of those 20 years if at all. He does not and has not lived in the property for most of the time and because he was hitting me he was removed from the property, by the Courts, in 2002. He turns up at the property when he likes, at whatever time of the day or night he likes and expects to be let in. I always have to create a scene before he leaves to go to his own home and if I ask him to leave he becomes quite abusive. He never fails to use foul/derogatory language towards me. I did not enjoy the experience of the Courts in 2002 because my kids become involved, and although they are much older now I really do not want to expose them to any of that all over again. It has taken me all of this time to keep things on a level with them. I am just tired of feeling oppressed by this person and I want to feel free to make decisions and to get on with my life.
If there is anyone that can give me sound legal advice as to what to do etc it would be appreciated
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Incognito
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 21:36 |
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Myjoy - girl do I want a one to one with this punk...and he's not paying for it! You're raising the children and bank rolling him. I know what your saying about buying again. If you've been at this for over five years most people who bought houses then couldn't buy that same house again today.
You got to move somewhere where he has no rights to just come and go. You could try and use this house as an asset to get a buy to let mortgage aand buy somewhere else for yourself and rent out your share of the joint home. Not sure how much say he will have with you doing this. It may mean you live somewhere smaller but at least your childrens inheritance will still be ticking over.
But this is very late in the day especially with the age of the children...schooling etc and starting another mortgage again from scratch doesn't bring the warmest feeling to the soul especially when it's family oritend as opposed to financial gain.
You could find out how much you would get for it if you sold it and how much profit would go towards buying another house. But then it sounds like as long as the children are around he'll just turn up to wherever you live. I would love to hear his story.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 21:46 |
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| In short this cannot be done without a SOLICITOR, and the willing consent of your partner......period!!!!
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Incognito
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 21:51 |
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Myjoy - ..or a hitman...but the solicitor would probably still work out cheaper.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 21:58 |
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PS: Myjoy..been there got the T Shirt Ok......so listen please listen hard.....you seriously need to act on this issue NOW, before the children come of age or you might just find yourself selling your house to pay off his interest in the property....
The hard turth is whilst i understand your feelings there are no short cuts on this, no jim screech.....strategy. You've left it too long already if you leave it longer YOu will get taken to the cleaner BELIEVE!!!
As it is you may just have to bite the bullet offer him a sum and pay him to take his NAME out of the property, either that or spend the money on solicitors and barristers either way it will cost you....trust me on that...
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Myjoy
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 22:01 |
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Incognito , cheers but I dont want to go to prison got my babies to look after
Kunjufu , he wont give it especially if he realises I do not have anywhere else to go, there must be another way! I dont even think the promise of financial gain would change his mind and if so it might not be worth my while to do so. It appears whatever I do I am going to lose. It just seems so unfair for a person to go without so many things only for another person to benefit from the fruits of that person's labour!
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Friday April 20th, 2007 22:10 |
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Myjoy wrote: Incognito, cheers but I dont want to go to prison got my babies to look after
Kunjufu, he wont give it especially if he realises I do not have anywhere else to go, there must be another way! I dont even think the promise of financial gain would change his mind and if so it might not be worth my while to do so. It appears whatever I do I am going to lose. It just seems so unfair for a person to go without so many things only for another person to benefit from the fruits of that person's labour!
Myjoy....If he won't consent a COURT can compell him, especially if you push the abuse angle......My point is you are NOT getting his name out thast house without a SOLICITOR period.....and yes you are going to lose (sorry can't sugar coat it) however i promise you if you leave it as you have done thus far..it will get worse and you will lose EVEN more..that is not even speculation when i say that....
To put this rather bluntly you made a mistake in NOT settling this 20 years ago, therefore he is NOT benefiting from your fruits but rather your mistake, don't compound it by assuming it will go away....
btw.....you cannot SELL that house without his consent...so the bottom line is that you're stuck unless you bite the bullet...
Last edited on Friday April 20th, 2007 22:14 by Kunjufu
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Incognito
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Posted: Saturday April 21st, 2007 07:11 |
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Myjoy - in a way I can't believe you have let it go this far and only now asking certain questions. i'm trying tolook at this from his perspective and it sounds like he has you just were he wants you. You need to start facing certain realities instead of sympathy over your hard luck story....in this world of economics business is business...what your seeing as your family home he is seeing as an investment...he's getting paid regardless your only choice would be to sell him out to babylon.
I see a lot of parallels in my own situation. The biggest gripe I had with the ex is that every contribution she made had the parting of money in it. Where I would be spending money as a family man she'd be spending as an independant investing woman not as a wife or a mother of our children. I would encourage her contribute just to make sure she felt part of the family unit but fool me, she's spending on her own agenda. Even now when she talks about what is hers I tell her it's not yours, it belongs to the children...just like everything I bought does. You tan deh!
I had money runnings with her before we were legally tied together and kind of knew what she was about financially (money monkey) - I was just naive to think a marriage licence and children would make her put money into perspective and see the bigger picture but on the contrary, the marriage and the children were an even bigger insurance policy for her money monkey frame of mind. You have to hit these people where it hurts...their pockets.
It's quite funny but where I tell the ex the values that I gave her money can't buy, she would always talk about how it was she who brang me into the world and talk about the type of socks and clothes I used to wear before I met her. Well before I met her I had a little earner and believe me no one in my age group and older had dispensable money with no repsonsibilities like me. Be it clothes to dry cleaning bills, I remember I used to sport in my Robert klein and Pringle jumbers, my Sergio Tachinni track suits and my diadora trainers with burlington socks et all...belivev me I was a don...in many cases people would give me clothes for piece of the action. I'd have one to one relationships with the tailors down peety coat lane who would buil me leather jackets to my personal taste and design. But after a while I realised none of it had value because of the way it were attained...and to be honest always knew this and probably gave away more than I kept for myself. There are other money monkies who have got the back of my ex talking about what I couldn't have done without her input when all of those sellout hypocrites benefitted from my inner conscience.
That experience taught me about what real value is and believe me it isn't money. So when the ex comes with her money monkey arguments I entertain it but deep down I just laugh and sigh that the values and the virtues that my spending of money was based on was not shared but who knows, the divorce and her finding somewhere else to live (she's been saying that for over 18 months now) might be the lesson she needed to learn what true value is....but I doubt it. I can only speak for myself as there are many people making a change in all kinds of illicit ways and their conscience is as clear as can be. My lesson was only a lesson because of my inner concsience which I know is different to many.
In your case can I ask you what bothers you more, his legal entitlement to the house or the facty that he just turns up unannounced. My priority was making sure the ex has no legal rights over me especially when all my values were a direct two fingered salute to that very legal system. I'm in a position were I can buy another house tomorrow but if lessons are to be learned the ex needs to go out there and pay her way instead of spending money she inherited. she doesn't know about blod and sweat in the same way me and you do....and to be honest I wouldn't want my wife to much more the mother of my children. If you want to talk about lost investments then the money I've lost is nothing compared to the values I put on the line.
In your position I'd happily go on the dole and get the government to house me but as I said, they'll see you as already housed with an asset, they'd rather focus their attention on a refugee or a young spud leaving prison. You can't be looking at what you're going lose financilally but what you're going to gain morally. In that sense I was very lucky because financially I had absolutely nothing to lose...be it bills, furniture, food or mortgage, my money was spent on my children not as an investment in bricks and mortar. But yeah like you, priority now is protecting their inheritance from squatters.
Last edited on Saturday April 21st, 2007 07:41 by Incognito
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Le Moor
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Posted: Saturday April 21st, 2007 07:40 |
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Joy you have two issues here which need to be addressed as such. One is the issue of possession the other is ownership . The first possession; you will need to consult a solicitor to see what can be done to prevent your partner entering the property and how you can rid of him physically for good. The second ownership; has to be obtained through whats known as a transfer of equity. Again you need a solicitor to fight your corner on a settlement figure needed to pay your partner, in order to be able to establish the re-mortgage amount you intend to take over in your sole name. A good solicitor will be able to fight your corner by collating his non-payment of the mortgage and abuse etc and deducting this from the total you would ordinarily have had to pay him.
One issue you need to consider is that the mortgage company you are with will only allow you to remortage if your income supports the loan independantly. For example if you bought your house for £50,000 and its now worth £100,000 then this means you would have £50,000 equity or profit in the property. Unless you originally set the ownership of the the property legally at uneven percentage amounts, then this means you owe your partner in this example £25,000 (half of £50,000 equity) minus any deductions you solicitor manages to win in court. (If he has never paid the mortgage and you can prove it in court, then you will be owing him much less). Lets assume there are no deductions of this type; then in this example you would need to remortgage for £75,000 in order to pay him his £25,000 equity share plus continue with the original £50,000 mortgage owed. The question is would your income be able to service this new remortgage amount. If the answer is no then the mortgage company you're with, wont agree to the transfer of equity anyway. Which would leave you with two options. Either to sell the property or continue as you are.
To find out whether your income is enough to cover the loan what you need to do is contact your mortgage company and tell them your income, expenditure details etc, and they will be able to tell you the maxium sum they would be willing to lend you. I would imagine this, along with the possession issue, are the first things you would do. You can then work out what route to take and how.
I wish you all the best whatever.
Havent you got any big brothers who can gently persuade him to play ball???
Last edited on Monday April 23rd, 2007 05:27 by Le Moor
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Incognito
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Posted: Saturday April 21st, 2007 07:45 |
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Le Moor - excellent point. Being able to pay for the house doesn't mean you meet the mortgage criteria to get the mortgage.
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Posted: Saturday April 21st, 2007 21:17 |
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Myjoy - one thing for sure is if you go to court make sure your story is straight. Seen my ex turn into this little liar which will catch you out in the end. I've found over time things have slowly come back to me and I'm glad I stood my ground. Whatever the outcome feel good knowing you stood yours.
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Le Moor
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Posted: Sunday April 22nd, 2007 01:44 |
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Incognito wrote: Le Moor - excellent point. Being able to pay for the house doesn't mean you meet the mortgage criteria to get the mortgage.
Yes, criteria not only in terms of income but your credit status too needs to be in good shape.
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Posted: Sunday April 22nd, 2007 09:07 |
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Le Moor - yep my friend found that out to his cost. Prided himself on not borrowing or owing money - basically what he earned is what he spent. When his ex moved him out of his council flat he found he was earning too much to get one of his own and even after twenty years in and out (between jobs) of employment had no credit history to get a mortgage. Talk about feeling like a criminal for no other reason than being naieve as to how the system works.
Myjoy - coming here if I'm honest you sound like how my ex must have sounded to the people she sold her story to...including people she's been on record as saying are jealous of me...guess she picked her army of defence wisely.
Can I asked were you are you married? This babyfather of yours. You say he goes back to his own house. Did he always have this, is it another mortgage he got fraudulently, did he only get this after he got moved out of the house you shared? If he's paying his own mortgage then I can more relate to his position i.e. paying his own way but keeping his investment interest open. He mus have been doing something right for you to want to buy a house together with him or was that pure sentiment i.e. fther of children et all?
My solicitor was female and at the end of the day they'll have your back simply because you are their client. When you get out there you find out how common all this stuff is and one thing she said is all the women ever want in these break ups is the house to the degree it's even pre-programmed into them before a house is even in the equation...and they'll do and say anything to get it. Inciting certain acts so they can draw the abusive husband card is just one of them.
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Backatya
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Posted: Sunday April 22nd, 2007 11:34 |
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Myjoy wrote: Are there any strong independent women out there that can advise me on this one. |
