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Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday January 5th, 2006 16:17 |
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This thread is really in response to some of the comments made on Ligali..where it appeared that some people didn't feel able or comfortable to voice their thoughts about concerns regarding BNV....
So I'm starting this thread as a central place for people to share their views and ideas re BNV... obviously we are in transition so please be patient however...that should not stop us TALKING to each other..for our part WE the Moderators welcome all constructive views good, bad or indifferent if it helps us to manage this space more effectively...
So in the words of a certain Football director:'lets be having ya..come on'
btw if you feel shy then just pm/email us instead ok...
Last edited on Thursday January 5th, 2006 16:18 by Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday January 5th, 2006 16:25 |
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| more feminist moderators to balance things.
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Thursday January 5th, 2006 19:38 |
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| Thanks Timeline..I will bare your thoughts in mind when we choose a new mod....ok!!
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Sooofresh
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Posted: Thursday January 5th, 2006 23:07 |
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well i am pissed off the Ligali forum is down,
@timeline
i agree, already i am reading comments that cannot be proven or have no meaning in the womens forum,
if anything TOYIN the ligali member would be a perfect feminist moderator, yes Toyin is male and african feminist supporter, me well i have no energy or time, but for the next new generation that would be reading this forums, his presence is exactly what is needed, none of the sexist aggro quite frankly clownery that exist.
Bring Toyin here.
out
Last edited on Thursday January 5th, 2006 23:08 by Sooofresh
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Posted: Thursday January 5th, 2006 23:33 |
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| Thanks Soofresh....although I don't think there is any plans to import Toyin here anytime soon but I'll keep it in mind ok.. Last edited on Thursday January 5th, 2006 23:46 by Kunjufu
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Friday January 6th, 2006 00:34 |
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Kunjufu wrote: Sooofresh….It occurs to me that after reading and reflecting on some of the comments on Ligali, that some people who criticised just didn’t get what the vision for BNV is SUPPOSED to be about…and to be honest that’s wholly my fault….so let me partially rectify that situation now..
The reason I got involved with BNV was not to mimic, copy or be like other forums, I hate apologist, and liberal wishy washy Blacks who cowtow to Europeans….I’m also quite clear that BNV is not meant to be a ‘movement’, that is not what BNV is about!!!
I’ve said openly again and again that organisations like Ligali are BETTER suited to that role than BNV…and I do not apologise for that either, if you want to get involved in creating political change then JOIN or support Ligali… I’m involved in the political process but I join/created a professional group to push the agenda that was important to me and my people… But that is operating OUTSIDE of BNV..
BNV is about creating a forum to enable us (Africans) to INTERACT and to THINK, its not about pushing or FORCING agenda’s down peoples throat…..It is about exposing people to agenda’s and allowing them to THINK and make up their own damn mind...
What this community desperately needs is THINKERS and DOERS, not Followers and Keyboard terrorist whose only purpose is to sit back and criticise others.. we have that in abundance and it doesn’t help…
I got involved in BNV because at THAT time there was no independent African news interactive forum, for us to simply TALK…..where we could talk our talk our way..….and interact worldwide….
Talking to the CONVERTED is bloody easy anybody can do it and do it well…but that’s not where its at is it? Put simply If the Pan AFricanist Mantra, the Feminist, mantra or the Cultural nationalist mantra does not make sense outside of its box….it begs the question what use is it to anyone….
So here’s my Challenge to you and Timeline..if you think feminism is the way forward.. Bring the ideology forward and expose it to the very people who don’t get it..and make it make sense to them….THAT is your responsibility not the MODERATION TEAMS, to expose others to your teaching and allow them to see the Value..like Toyin & voo does…Like we do here… Now Fred black does it.…Breadfruit does it and god bless him even MGL does it in his own simplistic way…but where are you in all of this…
If there is one thing we should be doing in 2006, that should be to STOP looking to others to do what we should be doing ourselves… Now like it or loath it we put our money where our mouths is… and stepped up to do our best here on BNV..Where is your contribution to making things better.. that is what I’d like see….The saying goes, If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem…the question you must ask where do you stand Soofresh…
Last edited on Friday January 6th, 2006 00:39 by Kunjufu
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Posted: Friday January 6th, 2006 09:09 |
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| edited Last edited on Friday January 6th, 2006 09:11 by
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Posted: Friday January 6th, 2006 10:13 |
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My only problem with the way the board was run, is that I don't think You (the moderators) were quick enough to get rid of obvious trolls.
Sept for that the board is pretty well run except the obvious recent troubles we had (yeah I was around for all that stuff).
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Kunjufu
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Posted: Friday January 6th, 2006 10:24 |
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| Name: thanks..i agree there were definate problems in that area..some self inflicted and some technical..we're definately working on both...
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Sooofresh
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Posted: Friday January 6th, 2006 18:31 |
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Kunjufu
Ha!
so you want me to prove why we should have a feminist mod, you want me to prove why we should have a muslim moderator, etc and *other* out of the ordinary people
but somewhow you do not need PROOF for a patriachal favoured mod, no PROOF is required for christian moderator, both are different idelogies/belifs from feminsim or Islam
no you do not need Proof for a patriachal favoured team or muslim because that is what BN is comfortable with.
Let me ask you this? are you aware that BN migh have black feminist females or muslims leaders?, are you aware of that, do you think we want to hear *all of yo b**ches with fat asses, all of you terrorists*
okay lets say indiviuals in BN are not too hot on womens rights, does that mean minortiy should not be represented, are you aware YOU are a minority in Great friggin Britain, do you not want representation, who knows europeans might belive that your belif for improved race relations is detremental to THEIR country, does that mean btheir should be no black MPs.
wake up Kunjufu this is 2006, their are black feminists( both men and women) everywhere and their are black muslims, and if you find them odd because they refuse Patriachal driven society then that is what they are comfortable with and should be represented accordingly.
that is my piece of the day.
@blackpower
yep quick delete, forgotten the guidlines did we?..........LOL.
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Posted: Friday January 6th, 2006 18:44 |
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Soofresh.... obviously you didn't read my thought accurately I believe if you reread my thoughts properly you see that i NEVER suggested that YOU prove the need to a Feminist Mod... I suggested that YOU and others FEMINIST expose FEMINIST idealogy to the masses and not expect that I should do that....totally different..
Second it is untrue and unfair to state that I choose Moderators BASED on , Political position or Faith....can you point to one word that underpins that untruth... The only specialist criteria I have openly used is age..and gender, culture and location...in order to balance the team...other than that I looked at who was generally considered BEST person for the job..
Let me also say that in 2006 I'm looking for doers and proactive people to do for themselves instead of constantly recreating devisive and unhelpful polemics... This thread was meant to support that process...again i stress are you part of the solution or the problem?
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Posted: Sunday January 8th, 2006 15:12 |
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Can I ask why we'd need a Muslim or "feminist" moderator?
I thought the whole reason one was a mod was their unbiased, ambivalent stance on topics. Personally I wouldn't like a mod to be so caught up in their own views to show unfair bias to Muslims or fellow feminists, for example.....
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Posted: Sunday January 8th, 2006 16:29 |
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Lady Vee wrote: Can I ask why we'd need a Muslim or "feminist" moderator?
I thought the whole reason one was a mod was their unbiased, ambivalent stance on topics. Personally I wouldn't like a mod to be so caught up in their own views to show unfair bias to Muslims or fellow feminists, for example.....
====================================================
funny you say that
becase the mod are unfair and bias towards feminists and muslims........or maybe you have not noticed..........but i can show you 1000 threads with these bias
dunno just reciting the importance of representation, blacks in Britioin want black MPS to represent, i don't hear any of you saying * why do we need a black MP as long as the white ones are unbias and fair*
come on now
we preach about wanting to be represented, but exclude groups from being represented.
thats why we never get taken seriously.
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Posted: Sunday January 8th, 2006 16:35 |
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Sooofresh wrote:
becase the mod are unfair and bias towards feminists and muslims........or maybe you have not noticed..........but i can show you 1000 threads with these bias
dunno just reciting the importance of representation, blacks in Britioin want black MPS to represent, i don't hear any of you saying * why do we need a black MP as long as the white ones are unbias and fair*
come on now
we preach about wanting to be represented, but exclude groups from being represented.
thats why we never get taken seriously.
Sorry soofresh but I'm calling you on this silly claim....please produce the link or the NAME of the thread of our OBVIOUS BIAS against said people thanks..
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Posted: Sunday January 8th, 2006 19:08 |
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Kunjufu
I will pm you, because either you are totally oblivious to your enviornment, or on purpose acting confused.
threads that are clearly sexist towards women are left open for all sundry to read on the world wide web, that should be a flippin good indicator.
The way i see it, if a mod does not act on sexist or islamophobic threads then they are indirectly support the thread.
Just how police turn blind eye towards black death is stephen lawerence before the capmaign, then these police although did not commit the crime they indirectly support the result.
as i said i will pm you , when i gather evidence.
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Posted: Sunday January 8th, 2006 19:15 |
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I await your pM..with interest..however the examples you cited thus far is NOT in my opinions examples of bias towards FEMINIST OR MUSLIM's which is what you specified in your allegation...
Finding something offensive or disliking something is NOT the same as direct bias towards people of a particular faith or political persuasion is it...?
Anyway I'm going to await your evidence and I'm going to publish my view of it on the Village....
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Posted: Sunday January 8th, 2006 19:32 |
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Kunjufu
Don't twist thing
I am writing about BIAS
by all means keep the sexist threads , but at the same time keep threads that are detremental towards black men too.........OK
because it seems insultive threads towards black males are deleted or members( and quite rightly so), but insultive threads aimed at black women are kept..........and you want to take about *personal dislikes.
as i said, your problem with appointing a muslim or feminist mod, has nothing to do with *neutral recuritment* of mods being based age, gender or location HA!HA! HA!, it is simply because you KNOW if you did appoint these type of mods , then their will be outcry from the anti-muslim/anti-feminist public............and my gosh just like a polticions or spin doctor you do not want upset the public.
yes this is the time to seperate the spin doctors from the revolutionists.
Kunjufu, BN admit it you are scared of appointing a muslim or feminist mod , because it will upset your core public who are very christian , very patriachal.
Last edited on Sunday January 8th, 2006 19:34 by Sooofresh
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Posted: Sunday January 8th, 2006 19:52 |
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This is exactly where I feel BN failed, not just the actions of moderators. Infact I'd suggest it was less of the actions of moderators but more the lack of self-control and responsiblity of individual posters.
Bias can only be seen through the eyes of said individual who has their own thought processes, experiences and agendas. For instance there were as many "inappropriate" pictures of males half naked as there were of females. Women are more likely to notice more the objectification of women than that of men. But having said that, and I think K would probably agree, he personally would have been more likely to halt the objectification of women more than men.
Also a major preoccupation with posters wasn't what was said but who was saying it which made it degrade into the same battles on various threads. Should we blame moderators?
How many times did we see people coming into threads all guns blazing and the thread descended into a slanging match for no apparent reason. It got to a point where people were predicting slanging matches when new posters posted old topics, but that is only because we are not open and are defensive about certain negative things and react emotionally towards that. Both men and women.
Some aspects probably still need to be discussed PROPERLY but we can't because of how we react to criticism.
It wasn't even about solutions to our ongoing problems, it was silly and about point-scoring. And if people on these forums want the progression that we so talk about, then it's about engaging in trying to understand the other point of view. Then using that to either adapt your thoughts on such things or enhance your arguments on any given subject. Especially seeing as most of the beef on BN last year was ALL male Vs female.
If BN can't be about educating our people, then we are missing out on what is a valuable tool. Another thing is just because you putting your argument against one person doesn't mean others who may not even post is getting something out of it.
I'd agree some people won't change their views, or their premise. But hard, robust intelligent debate is what it should ALWAYS be about. There will always be personality clashes but when it comes to 6 or 7 people jumping on bandwagons giving hi-fives to people who cuss the other the best like we did in school times then that's when we get inundated with threads that need to get banned or halting proper discussion.
Having said all that some people just love argument for arguments sake. We are all grown ass people we shouldn't be looking for moderators to sort our issues out. They should be dealing with people who come to cause trouble not regulars. We should have some sense and responsiblity to OUR space.
Just look how people felt when it was gone.
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Posted: Sunday January 8th, 2006 19:53 |
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Sooofresh wrote:funny you say that
becase the mod are unfair and bias towards feminists and muslims........or maybe you have not noticed..........but i can show you 1000 threads with these bias
dunno just reciting the importance of representation, blacks in Britioin want black MPS to represent, i don't hear any of you saying * why do we need a black MP as long as the white ones are unbias and fair*
come on now
we preach about wanting to be represented, but exclude groups from being represented.
thats why we never get taken seriously.
Sooofresh: I've highlighted AGAIN the exact quote for accuracy... you said and I now quote:becase the mod are unfair and bias towards feminists and muslims........or maybe you have not noticed. Soory but that passage denotes a direct bias AGAINST specific groups of people, whom I suspect we are supposed to be able to identify as such... Nowhere in the above passage does it state the collussion with 'sexist' behaviour.. Sorry but did I misread your passage if so please highlight where...
You now go on to say that I, or the Mods kept Threads detremental towards women but acted only on those threads demeaning women... This is unless I'm mistaken a new and different alligation..
You also alleged that I'm scared to appoint a 'muslim' or 'Feminist' mod because of an Alleged 'outcry' from people or person's unknown... again this does not address the points I put to you directly or Answer the question Lady Vee asked..so...
Ok Soofresh you're right it is time to separate what i call the 'keyboard terrorist' from those who are Pro African... I intend when you present your evidence, to prove beryond doubt in PUBLIC that what you have in fact alleged is wholly and completely untrue... because I'm 100% confident that not such bias took place and I can PROVE it with numbers of people we banned, the threads we've removed and the Private discussion's I've had with Mods on this matter all of which I've got since BNV reopen in 2003.
Once I've FULLY addressed in PUBLIC your allegation as I EXPECT to...I promise you simply this..in 2006 if ithis type of misinformation occurs again those who do it will be asked to LEAVE BNV permenantly...no exceptions....
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Posted: Sunday January 8th, 2006 20:06 |
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Kunjufu
so let me ask you this, since you want public , i will bring it public
why was not Coltrane appointed as a mod?.........for his islamic views, or is it becuase he offended americans by posting legal american polices that did not sit comfortable with many? or is it because TWO OF YOUR MODS OPPOSED HIM, because he told them something that was uncomforatble with what they believed in.
I will tell you why Public is something i avoid, cause unfortunatly, those who are bias two of them are MODS.
yes your own neutral appointed staff...........LOL.........neutral, are you sure
and i will compare Ligali to BN, have you noticed their is none of that descending gender conflict ..........ask your self why?, as far as i am concerned the same people post in ligali and BN............i tell you why?, because one allows it, the other does not, bought to you by super professional , real UNBIAS mods.
Simple analysis, and does not require a study.
ps: oh by any means, don't think i am promoting myslef for the presitage role of MODS........LOL........no suh.
anyway
you bought me the challenge , i will act on it, 2006, i will analyise every single thread the gets Kept or deleted and show you real bias.
but knowing you..........SPIN is your way of working out things.
OUT
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Posted: Sunday January 8th, 2006 20:22 |
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My thoughts: Thank you for your contribution...You hit the nail on the head....with a lot of your points.. Its not about the MODs taking responsibility for the behaviour of grown people, it is about everyone taking a degree of responsibility for what happens and to STOP pointing fingers like some spoilt child....
Up untill recently I was picking on the very issues Soofresh claims I'm supposed to be running away from...See here for EXAMPLE!! However as you can see Although I felt one way clearly the Majority of MEN & WOMEN who bothered to offer a view felt differently and I acted accordingly..
BUT this is supposed to be an OPEN DISCUSSION forum meant to challenge views and get people thinking.. it is not intended to be a sanitise Micro world where we artifically shield ourselves from reality and delude ourselves..... What happened last year is that some people just forgot that and wanted to dictate a narrow agenda.. or just create havoc for the sake of it....That is not what BNV is about..
like I've already admitted on Ligali We did make mistakes, but I expected that, we are not perfect.. I also stated that part of the problem was Technical so there were just some things we could not deal with as we would have liked as it was technically beyond us........ That ends this year..
We are clear we going back to our roots of being an AFRICAN and Challenging Discussion forum, and anyone displaying the type of behaviours you TALKED about My thoughts..will be excluded no discussion, no warning I'm just tired of the stupidness and I don't see why we should have to put up with it or be plagued with such infantile people..anymore!!!
So be warned anyone looking to come here with that type of behaviour you will be BANNED!!! end off...
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Posted: Sunday January 8th, 2006 20:24 |
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Sooofresh wrote:
and i will compare Ligali to BN, have you noticed their is none of that descending gender conflict ..........ask your self why?, as far as i am concerned the same people post in ligali and BN............i tell you why?, because one allows it, the other does not, bought to you by super professional , real UNBIAS mods.
NO the difference is Sooofresh is that people posting in Ligali has more respect for the space they are using than they do here.
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Posted: Sunday January 8th, 2006 20:49 |
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Kunjufu wrote: My thoughts: Thank you for your contribution...You hit the nail on the head....with a lot of your points.. Its not about the MODs taking responsibility for the behaviour of grown people, it is about everyone taking a degree of responsibility for what happens and to STOP pointing fingers like some spoilt child....
Up untill recently I was picking on the very issues Soofresh claims I'm supposed to be running away from...See here for EXAMPLE!! However as you can see Although I felt one way clearly the Majority of MEN & WOMEN who bothered to offer a view felt differently and I acted |
